Moral issues can often divide families.
For Redditor Conscious_Jury_7937, supporting his son's homosexuality meant distancing himself from his wife.
When the Original Poster (OP) started to contemplate divorce, his wife was unexpectedly diagnosed with cancer.
He stayed by her side until her death, but as soon as she passed he made sure to show his support for his son.
The seating arrangements at his wife's funeral led him to turn to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) for feedback.
He asked:
"AITA for sitting with my son at my wife's funeral?"
He went on to share his side of the story.
"I [52-year-old Male] was with my wife [53-year-old Female] since high school. We got married and had a son [25-year-old Male] and daughter [27-year-old Female]."
"My son came out as gay when he was 16. My wife was never supportive of my son being gay. He moved out at 19 to live with his boyfriend."
"My wife tried to pretend he did not exist. None of her family were supportive and would let it be known during family events."
"As a result, I became distant from my wife and was looking into divorce."
"She got diagnosed with breast cancer last year and I put the divorce on hold to help take care of her."
"Son also helped, but she would push him away. The cancer spread throughout her body and she passed away last week."
"We had the service last week and her family made it clear that son and his boyfriend had to sit away from everyone."
"Her brother approached me asking if I would sit with him and his family. I simply told him no and went to sit with my son."
"Everyone gave us dirty glares and it was worse during the reception. Her brother approached me after the service angry that I chose my son over my wife."
"He even went as far as to say that my wife did not want her son there as he was a disgrace. I am now disgraced by her family for supporting my son."
"This has caused tension between the families."
"I just would like to know if I was the AH?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"NTA but your wife's family sure as shit is. I'm sorry for this tough time. High five for being a supportive parent to your son. It sounds like he really needed you." - QuirkyFunUsername
"NTA."
"Your son deserves to know that he has someone in his corner, especially if his maternal relatives feel the same way about him as your wife."
"Sitting with him at the funeral doesn't mean that you were choosing him over your wife; it means that you love your son." - WolfGoddess77
"NTA - of course you're not. You were ready to divorce your wife over this, so who gives AF what her family thinks." - jrm1102
"NTA - You did not choose anyone over your wife, you chose to support your son who had just lost his mother."
"While I respect her family is grieving, you owe them nothing and did nothing wrong here. If I were you , I would avoid them going forward."
"I lost my husband a few years ago and while I was blessed with supportive in-laws for the most part, there were a few who I choose to disengage from as much as possible."
"Just because we have a shared grief does not make me obligated to allow them to be an active part of my life, and you aren't obligated in any way to your in-laws either." - punkybrewsterstwin
"NTA. You are a hero! Your stayed with your wife and put the divorce on hold to help her."
"Once that was over, you rightfully put your son first. He will never forget that you stood up for him. You were a great husband and you are a great father."
"I'm sorry for you loss. It must be very difficult to lose someone you loved under such circumstances." - squirrelsareevil2479
"NTA and maybe this is the last you get to hear from them. Even if you went with the divorce, it wouldn't have been any different."
"At least now you don't have to deal with any of them. When a parent fails a child for whatever reason, its the parent's failure and not that of the child."
"Well done on being there with your son who otherwise would have been alone." - SPolowiski
"NTA- you were still legally married to your wife so YOU get to have a say at her funeral and nobody else ."
"You should have invited her Brother to leave if he's so mad about it."
"You're not a disgrace , they are."
"Thank you for standing up for your son." - _A-Q
"NTA - you supported your son through a tough time losing his mom and having to go to her funeral." - deckyon
"NTA. Appeasing bigots is always wrong, especially if it's against your own child. You're doing the right thing, even if the disgusting bigots in your family won't see that." - CapoExplains
"NTA. Your son was a truly gracious for attending and trying to show respect for his mother, who didn't return the courtesy."
"Her family should all be ashamed of themselves. I cannot fathom treating the son of the deceased that way, and of course he is also their grandson, nephew etc."
"I hope with her passing you can close that horrible chapter in your life and have no contact with them anymore, there's no reason" - dart1126
"NTA It seems the problems you had with your wife prior to her death were here doing, not yours."
"Sitting with and supporting your son who's just lost his mother was the right thing to do. Your wife's family are AHs, you are a good Dad" - Eriks-Rose
"I mean. i'm leaning ESH (with the exception of your son of course) because i feel like 'looking into divorce' shouldn't take *8* years…"
"…(16 to 25, minus a year for 'put the divorce on hold last year') when it comes to something as major as "pretends child doesn't exist as her family treats him like shit"..."
"like. good on you on this front, but it feels like a bit too late to me..." - normalAbby7
"Hell no! NTA! NTA!"
"Those family members can get bent. Although, since you were planning on divorcing her, you probably weren't going to be seeing much of them anyway." - wynlyndd
"NTA - You're an absolutely brilliant father, I'm sorry for your loss."
"Your son is going to remember this moment for the rest of his life, and that you stood up for him against your wife's bigoted family. Keep it up." - SSK235
"First I am so sorry for your loss. Even if you weren't happy with your wife and her choices, you stood by her, have had a horrible few years an it sucks watching someone die from cancer."
"Why in the hell would her family have anything to say or do with the funeral? She was technically still your wife, therefore you and your children should have planned the funeral."
"You were not wrong. Relatives that are not supportive during a funeral can be dismissed with prejudice."
"I understand they are also going through their own grief, but that doesn't give them the right to berate and belittle."
"How the heck did you choose your son over your wife? Your wife is dead."
"Your son has so many emotions right now, probably the biggest being that he will never resolve things with his mom. How is your daughter doing through all this?"
"Your choices are simple now."
"Anyone who wants to continue with this 'you are horrible/son is horrible/your wife was a saint' or whatever version they spew . . ."
"'I have nothing to say to you and do not want to hear from you again.' Hang up on them, have their emails go directly to junk."
"If they approach you, your hand held up with palm facing them is a pretty universal signal to keep your mouth shut. Then turn around and walk away." - Tinkerpro
"Jesus christ dude. Come the f*ck on are you actually asking this?"
"NTA you're supporting your child and not allowing bigots to ruin another important relationship in his life. You would be the a**hole if you didn't stand by your child" - Theonetruepappy94
"Funerals are for the bereaved. She was your son's mother and he was likely grieving even though it was a difficult relationship."
"She had no further needs you could meet, and he needed love and support."
"I cannot imagine a less AH way to handle that situation. NTA." - Homer_04_13
"NTA"
"You're a wonderful father."
"Now that your wife has died, no reason to keep in touch with the family that disowned your son." - Sweet_Deeznuts
"I'm sorry for your loss."
"NTA - I hope you and your son can lean on each other as you both go through the grief of losing someone close to you."
"I've found it is a weird mix of emotions when you love someone yet disagree with their actions or choices and then they pass."
"Please take the time to process and acknowledge emotions - both in you and your grown kids." - OneAlbum2RuleThemAll
Props to the OP for standing up for his son.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp