So many times, we, as grown-ups, put the period at the end of a power struggle with the age-old response, "... because I said so."
But is that really fair?
Are you entitled to have the last say because you are an authority figure or because you are older?
And is it truly to invalidate feelings and ignore elevated emotions?
According to one man on Reddit, his family certainly thinks so.
His family is angry with him for refusing to make his son apologize for ignoring his uncle and now-aunt after they upset him by having their wedding at an adults-only venue, so he turned to the "Am I The A**hole Here" (AITAH) subReddit to seek feedback from fellow Redditors.
Redditor LeoBastion asked:
"AITAH for not making my son forgive my brother after he was uninvited from his wedding?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"6 months ago my son Leo (14/m[ale]) decided to cutoff my brother Jack (46/m[ale])."
"Now my mum, brother, SIL and other family members want me to make my son forgive him to keep the peace."
"For a little bit of context, I'm (46/m[ale]) a single dad."
"My family has always helped me in many ways (mostly babysitting when Leo was younger), and even before my son was born, we were all very close."
"We all live relatively close to each other so we've been able to keep in touch with weekly gatherings, spending the holidays together, etc."
"Everyone loves my son and my son loved them back."
"However, my brother Jack was always my son's favorite person."
"Back when my son was 3-4 years old, Jack and his wife had more flexible jobs than me (think freelancing vs a 9 to 5) so they always volunteered to look after Leo, something he loved."
"Almost every month they would take him to the zoo, or the aquarium, or they'd even go camping with him."
"As my son grew older, he started to develop the same interests as ny brother like videogames, photography, and music."
"When Leo was 9, he told me he wanted to have the same career as his uncle."
"This is all to say, they were extremely close."
"Last year my brother informed me that he and his gf Mary were getting married."
"I knew that neither Jack nor his gf believed in marriage, so when I asked them about it, they told me it was all Karen's idea (my SIL's mum)."
"Because Jack and Mary didn't care much about the wedding, and since Karen was paying for it, they let her plan everything, from the venue to the food, music, etc."
"Karen decided to plan a destination wedding at a fancy resort."
"In July of last year we received the invitation and it was addressed to both me and my son."
"I even had a plus one if I wanted."
"And as soon as the website went up, I tried to make a reservation for our hotel room."
"I should clarify that I had to call the hotel to make my reservation because the link wasn't working and I really couldn't risk not getting a room."
"When I received the email confirmation, it said 'room for 2 adults' but I didn't think much of it and just assumed it was an error due to the language barrier with the hotel guy."
"I also bought the plane tickets for us around the same time."
"Fast forward to January, less than a month before the wedding, when my SIL called me crying saying that Karen had made a mistake with the venue."
"Apparently, the resort was for adults only so they didn't allow anyone younger than 16."
"My son was 13 at the time."
"I asked her if it would be possible for Leo and me to say in another hotel, but they told me the whole resort was child free so my son wouldn't even be allowed to attend the ceremony or the reception."
"I was disappointed and I told my SIL I'd talk to my son about it (I knew how excited he was about his uncle's wedding) but she insisted both her and Jack wanted to tell him in person."
"Honestly my son was devastated."
"He started crying as soon as he was told he wouldn't be able to go."
"He pleaded with them and even offered to give them all of his savings so they could move the wedding."
"After 30 minutes of this, my SIL got frustrated and just told him that he was being selfish and that this day wasn't about him."
"Leo eventually apologized and went to his room."
"After the wedding, my son just stopped talking to my brother."
"If Jack sent him a message, Leo would just ignore it unless it had something to do with me (for example, he would only reply if Jack asked him to tell me something because he couldn't reach me, etc)."
"On our family gatherings, Leo would only respond to small questions like can you pass the salt' or 'help grandma with the plates,' but he would ignore my brother if Jack or Mary tried to start a conversation or ask him about school, etc."
"A month after the wedding, Jack and Mary offered to take him for a special vacation during spring break to 'make up for the wedding,' but my son just ignored them, and he later told me he didn't want to go with them."
"It was heartbreaking because I knew how much he wanted to go to that place, and I wasn't able to afford it yet, but he stuck to his guns."
"Something similar happened on Leo's birthday."
"He asked me if I was planning to throw him a party (I do it every year) and when I said yes he asked me not to invite his aunt and uncle."
"I tried to convince him to invite them because they're family and they were really sorry but he just said that if they didn't want him on their special day, he didn't want them on his."
"My brother was crying when I told him he wasn't invited."
"However, things came to a head this past weekend."
"We were at my mum's house, and the conversation about Leo's university came up."
"My mum asked Leo if he was still planning on going to the same university as Jack and said that he should start planning for that, but my son replied that he wasn't interested anymore and that he had chosen to study something else."
"Then my mum said 'I thought you wanted to be like your uncle' and my son just said, 'why would I want to be like him?'"
"At this point, I intervened and told Leo he didn't have to be so rude, but the damage was already done."
"Both my brother and SIL heard what he said and they left shortly after."
"Last night, my brother texted me saying I was an a**hole for letting my son continue with this grudge, and he even accused me of being jealous of their relationship, and that's why I wasn't doing anything to fix it."
"I just told him these were the consequences of his actions and that this was 100% his fault by allowing his POS mother-in-law to plan the wedding when she obviously hated my child."
"He hung up on me."
"My mum and some other family members think I should force my son to forgive my brother so we can all move on claiming there was no ill intent and it was just a small mistake."
"But I don't think I should."
"My son was clearly hurt, and he should be allowed to heal and forgive them only when he's ready."
"So AITAH?"
Redditors weighed in and declared that OP was not the a**hole (NTA) in the situation, with many acknowledging that his son is entitled to both his feelings and his refusal to apologize.
"NTA- I have a hunch this is less about the wedding and more about the conversation where they called him selfish."
"To me, that conversation would've done enough damage to ruin the relationship."
"I'm guessing they never apologized to your son for saying the things they said or reacting the way they did."
"He trusted them, and instead of them helping him process this extremely upsetting thing- that was their mistake- they called him selfish and yelled at him and effectively ruined their relationship."
"They are the adults- if they want to fix the relationship, they need to stop trying to buy him and they need to start apologizing and making amends for the hurt and discord they caused."
"Your son wasn't rude when he said he didn't want to be like his uncle- he was answering a question honestly- no one shouldn't put him in a position to give an honest answer he would get in trouble for- that's incredibly crappy on the adults to do- especially when you called him rude- you are the ah for that."
"Get him some therapy- he's been betrayed by some of the most important people in his life."
"Your son is the only one nta in this situation."
"You should apologize to him as well for calling him rude when he wasn't." - throwaway20648
"You cannot force someone else to forgive another person."
"Your child was hurt. You can talk to him, but you can't force your son to forgive."
"The more people try to make your son, who is only 13, forgive him the angrier he is going to get." - Spiritual-TarHeel
"NTA. I think your SIL getting frustrated with him, and telling him he was being selfish was the proverbial nail in the coffin."
"He was already upset, and hitting the bargaining stage of grief for not being allowed at the wedding, and she basically kicked him when he was down."
"And, your brother stood by and let it happen."
"Leo will never forget that." - Aggravating_Style544
"NTA"
"Your brother and his wife never once checked in with what MIL was doing? I kinda find that hard to believe."
"Your son is a teen and teens have big feelings that they don't quite have the maturity to process."
"The more he is pushed, the more he will dig his feet in."
"If he forgives, it will be on his terms and no one else's" - SteampunkHarley
"You're allowing your son to make decisions over his relationships and his boundaries. Your brother and SIL could take a lesson from him, considering they let themselves be talked into a wedding where one of the people they claim to be incredibly important to them couldn't come."
"The only reason they are getting upset is because their guilt is getting too much to bear. They can grow up." - writing_mm_romance
"Soooo your son's hurt feelings were nothing to worry about and nothing to change plans about, even plans that the plan holders didn't want, but your brother's hurt feelings about a birthday party are enough to get everyone in the family involved?"
"NTA and it sounds like everyone is treating Leo as a "kid" and not as a whole person with thoughts or feelings" - darthcatlady
According to his fellow Redditors, OP has every right to allow his son to heal on his own time and not force forgiveness.
Perhaps this incident can teach the rest of the family a lesson about considering the impact words and actions have on others.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp