Losing a loved one is never easy.
And the grief that follows loss is a difficult thing to navigate.
Sometimes that grief spills into every aspect of life.
Eventually, other loved ones find themselves affected by it.
Redditor ByNerea wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITAH for not forcing my fiancée to wear my father's late wife's wedding dress?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My father lost his first wife (I'm going to call her Mia) more than 30 years ago."
"It is a very long and complicated situation, but to summarize it: my mother is the second on his heart because he's always said that the love of his life is Mia, and he always made it clear."
"My dad still wears his wedding ring with Mia in one hand, my mom bakes a cake for her birthday, my mom leaves my dad alone when it's his anniversary with Mia, and he's feeling down, there are many photos of Mia in the house, there are even photos of her in their room because my father never wanted to change them, etc."
"As crazy as it may seem, this kind of thing is very normal within couples of this type, and they see that as something normal and sweet even if it is not. For example, making a cake every one of Mia's birthday was the idea of another woman who is also married to a widower and does the same thing."
"I've been raised that way, kind of having two mothers."
"Even if it wasn't like that."
"It was not a healthy childhood, but luckily, I have gone to therapy to work on all the issues that this caused."
"My mother always says that he gives her the space she deserves and feels equally loved like he loves his first wife."
"My siblings and I don't see it that way because our mother deserves better, but if she is happy, we will not ruin her happiness, so we never talk about it."
"Now, coming to the problem; I'm going to marry my fiancée; her mother never had a wedding ceremony, so she doesn't have a wedding dress to inherit."
"So my girlfriend excitedly told me that she thinks it would be cute to ask my mother if she can use her dress."
"My mom has mentioned that in the past, and I don't have any sisters, so I thought it was a nice idea."
"Anyway, I talked to my mom about lending her dress to my fiancée, and she got really excited and said yes."
"My mother had spoken several times about wanting to have a daughter to wear her dress and she was very excited when my fiancée asked her to wear it, she even tried it on."
"That conversation was closed."
"Now, almost a month after we talked about it, my mom asked my fiancée if it would be nice to wear Mia's wedding dress. "
"My fiancée told her no, she feels a connection with my mother and not with Mia. She doesn't even know Mia."
"After that, my mother has been asking me to try to convince my fiancée to wear Mia's dress."
"My father wanted me to put up the typical decoration to commemorate the deceased, but I told him I wouldn't do that."
"So my mother now wants my fiancée to wear Mia's dress to commemorate her and for her to be present too because she was someone really special."
"Again; I never met her, I don't know who she was."
"My fiancée told me that Mia is a total stranger to her."
"My fiancée wants my mother's dress. She wants to give her a special place at the wedding since my mother sees her as a daughter and she as a second mother and wants to have a special moment."
"I told my mother that I don't intend to do that. It even seems gloomy and weird to me, but I have been raised around Mia's memory that sometimes I don't even understand if I am exaggerating or not."
"Being raised in this kind of way sometimes makes me feel confused about what is normal and not in a family, it would be normal to ask my fiancée to wear Mia's dress in my family dynamic."
"But I don't know what someone who was raised normally would do and if I am a bad person for not wanting to have done it."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. Why would your fiancee want to wear the dress of a woman neither you nor she has a connection?"
"No offense to your parents, but it's a weird and creepy request, and your father wanting you to have some sort of in memoriam at your wedding to his deceased wife is odd."
"Kudos to your parents for how they have managed to embrace your father's loss and have a successful marriage but your wedding isn't about your father's loss of his first wife."
"I can not imagine the look on your fiancee's face when your mother suggested she wear your father's deceased wife's wedding dress."
"I know my jaw would have dropped to the floor." ~ Peony-Pony
"His very alive current wife, actual MOTHER of the groom, and F[uture]-M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] to the bride!"
"SHE is the one who should be honored, not a ghost of a person completely unrelated to ANY of them!
"OP's dad is disgusting for pushing his grief and dysfunction on his whole family."
"He needs help, and OP's mom needs to stop enabling this utter nonsense."
"It's been long enough."
"He never should have gotten remarried if he couldn't put his loving wife and family first."
"Dad's a major AH."
"OP is NTA." ~ Lazy-Instruction-600
"You are right to feel this way."
"From a side perspective, it looks very mentally unhealthy."
"Your dad clearly hasn't dealt with his grief in a healthy way."
"It's ok to remember deceased spouses."
"Even have some mementos of them in the house."
"But to always tell your mom that she will always be forever second to him and raising you in a way to think of his late wife as your second mom, is very disrespectful of him."
"Moreover, even if your mom is ok with that, they both shouldn't have involved you and your siblings in this mess."
"And it's a big fat mental mess."
"What's next?"
"You know that he will insist that your kids will also be included in this 'forever funeral service' for his first wife, right?"
"Are you ok with that?"
"As I see, your future wife, as any other normal person who will care for the mental health of her kids, will be clearly not." ~ InsideRationalA
"There are less creepy ways to commemorate deceased loved ones without forcing people to wear their clothes."
"Put your foot down about the dress."
"Shut that s**t down HARD."
"If you feel you need (and want!) to cater to your father's grief to keep the peace, talk with your fiancé about what you are prepared to do (if anything). e.g. reserve an empty seat next to him during the ceremony."
"This is YOUR wedding."
"They are guests on YOUR terms."
"Offer an alternative that you and your fiancé are comfortable with, and your father can take it or leave it."
"If that's not good enough for him, he's welcome to wear Mia's dress himself, not attend." ~ pocketfullofdragons
"NTA for recognizing the toxic and delusional grief of your parents."
"I'm sure your mom is not happy, but the more her kids stand up against having to hear about 'Dad's first love' (which is just inappropriate to talk about SO often that the kids all know about this) the more your mom might realize how much she's always been a stand into the life your dad wanted to have."
"Your dad is just garbage."
"He built a family and a life in bad faith and will never be able to be a healthy partner for anyone because he has escalated from grief to obsession."
"You can just cut him off. He has no more heart left to give since he gives 99% to Mia and 1% to your mom."
"Congratulations on your marriage."
"This is your opportunity to frame your own life."
"Don't let your parents ruin this part with their mistakes. They've done enough already." ~ Z_is_green13
"Tell your parents if they want to include the long-demised Mia in a wedding; they can renew their vows, and your mom can wear Mia's dress."
"She's so invested in this Mia fairy tale that I'm surprised she didn't wear Mia's dress at her own wedding."
"If it makes things easier, your parents could arrange to have Mia's favorite song at the reception, and--no."
"No enabling their sick fantasy."
"No extending the Cult of Mia into your wedding."
"If your parents refuse to attend, let them stay home with their pretend friend."
"Have a lovely wedding." ~ 13surgeries
"The answer to this and every post of its kind is no, you are NTA for declining to make your wedding about anyone other than you and the person you are marrying."
"If your parents would like to conduct some sort of seance using your father's late wife's wedding dress, they should do so on a separate occasion." ~ JHSMesq
"NTA. But your father is a controlling, unreasonable (slightly unhinged) complete AH."
"You've had to endure this utter nonsense your entire life, and while your mother has accepted it, this is your time."
"The beginning of a new chapter in both of your lives."
"This ghost cannot be part of your future." ~ AllInkalicious
"NTA. And I don't understand this fixation on wearing old dresses."
"My mom's old dress was somewhere in the basement."
"I never once thought of wearing it."
"I wanted something in style, that fit me well."
"Just say 'We decided to buy a new dress that (fiancée) loves.'"
"Then buy it."
"Your parents both need serious therapy." ~ qtcyclone
"I feel so bad for your mother."
"Unfortunately, if she's content being second place to a dead woman even at her own son's wedding, there's nothing you can do. NTA." ~ zjmhy
"NTA. You never met her, and your fiancée never met her."
"You have nothing to commemorate." ~ diminishingpatience
This is definitely a strange situation. Reddit is with you, OP.
This is your wedding. You and your fiancée get to do what you want to do.
It may be time for a serious talk with your parents.
They can feel however they want about Mia.
But they need to understand your feelings more.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp