Content Warning: Grief, Grieving Process, Deceased Partners
It would be a tremendous understatement to say that the death of a life-long partner would be devastating.
But sometimes we forget how devastating it can be for parents to grieve the loss of their adult child, even if they had been married and started a life of their own, empathized the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor throwaway_4833k was understanding of this grief and knew that his wife still loved her late husband.
But when her late husband's parents started comparing him to her late husband, and also imagined how much better their biological granddaughter would be, the Original Poster (OP) was pushed too far outside of his comfort zone.
He asked the sub:
"WIBTAH (Would I Be the A**hole) if I told my wife's dead husband's parents to stop coming to see our biological daughter?"
The OP loved his wife and their one-year-old daughter.
"I have been married my wife for about two years now and we had our daughter a year ago."
"Now, my wife was married before, she got married pretty young, but her husband died."
"I knew all of this and have been just fine with it."
But his wife's late husband's parents were starting to impede on their happiness.
"Until now."
"See, she's still pretty close to her dead husband's parents."
"And they were excited for the birth of our child. They only had one son, no other children at all."
"They have been coming over to our place about once a week. It was fine at first, but it's gotten kind of suffocating. They have visited us more times than either of her parents or my parents."
"They have even stayed over our house at times, which is something I wouldn't even like even if they were my own parents."
"Another thing... they talk about their dead son... a lot. Which is usually fine, but they have made some comments that make me uncomfortable."
"They even said my daughter kind of looks like him, and his mom even said, 'Oh, if she's this cute, imagine how cute your kids would have been, if only...' when talking to my wife. She was gonna say more, but I think she realized what she was about to say, I was right there."
The OP felt incredibly conflicted.
"I want to be amicable, and I knew that there were gonna be some moments like this, but it's starting to make me feel uncomfortable."
"I don't know how much more I can take of this."
"Would I be the a**hole for setting new boundaries?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
The conversation surrounding this issue was uniquely nuanced.
Everyone understood why the OP was upset, between the frequency of the visits and the kinds of comments and conversations that were occurring during those visits.
However, they also understood that the wife's parents-in-law were struggling with their grief, and while their attachment to their daughter-in-law's new family was misplaced, it was understandable.
But clearly, the situation needed to change.
Some empathized with what the grieving parents were going through but insisted on boundaries.
"NTA... They are clinging to you guys in the wake of losing their son, but there needs to be boundaries in place. It begins with a conversation with your wife and working in unison, and this really needs to be a conversation she has with them, rather than you initiating it." - leaving4me
"NAH."
"You are understandably uncomfortable with the situation. Your wife loves these people like her own parents, which often blinds us to boundary stomping. The late husband's parents are grieving and need more therapy to help them have a healthy relationship with your wife and child."
"Next time you bring it up to your wife, focus on how it makes you feel, and how you think that it can be detrimental to your child."
"It might help you to reframe the discussion to ask her to imagine how intrusive this would be if these were your in-laws."
"Because regardless of the relationship, they are intruding on your life, your home, and potentially your child's mental well-being."
"Every time your wife tells you it's ok, remind her that it's not ok with you. And don't stop reminding her until the two of you are able to come to an agreement that is workable for BOTH of you."
"I say this from the POV of having seen my late SIL's mother lose her mind after my SIL died. She tried to take custody of the kids away from my brother. Everything about her grieving process was incredibly toxic to those around her."
"You are much better off here than my brother was, but that doesn't mean you have to give up your peace of mind in your own home. You're the dad and you get to have a say in how your kid is raised/treated/spoken to." - Background_Camp_7712
"NAH. The parents are overstepping, but they're not being cruel, they are just hurting."
"Bonus grandparents are amazing. This will only be beneficial, but you all need to talk, sweetly and kindly all around, about what this relationship is going to look like right now, because right now it's not working for you." - altdultosaurs
"I would specifically mention to the wife the emotional toll of being compared to her late husband as if OP is just the person standing in since he's gone."
"Maybe even ask if she'd be uncomfortable if he and his family compared her to his exes (not exactly the same situation, but still valid I think) AND compared their biological daughter to any children his exes may have had by this point." - Oblivious_Squid19
"Her not being over the loss of her husband is okay. Her remaining close with his family is okay."
"Her inviting them over more than either of their own parents is excessive. If OP were fine with it, then it'd be okay. Since it's not, weekly is not okay."
"Them reminiscing over the late husband is okay. The parents giving backhanded compliments to their daughter is not okay."
"The wife engaging in that conversation and not shutting it down is abhorrent. Her boundary enforcement in general seems to be lacking."
"OP shouldn't try to shut them out completely just because they're the parents of another man she was with in the past. With that said, the parents are giving him every reason imaginable to not like them and not want them around." - the_saltlord
Others pointed out that this would eventually negatively impact the OP's child, as well.
"The kid's mental health is going to be important in the long run for sure if this keeps up. The baby is already being compared to children that can never be. The baby is being judged on her relation to a dead man… which is none."
"Imagine growing up being constantly compared to somebody that doesn't exist, constantly being a disappointment to the people judging you because they have an ideal in their head that could never possibly be reality." - FreeFallingUp13
"'Imagine growing up being constantly compared to somebody that doesn't exist.'"
"Yup, I lived that life. It f**king sucks. I didn't even think about that while reading and you're 100% right. The OP needs to nip this in the bud before the kid is old enough to remember it." - Jirvey341
"I could never be the child my dad would have loved if I'd been the son he dreamed of. The first time I ever heard him speak my name out loud was when I was 17 and his EX came back pregnant with a boy and let him 'adopt' him by being named on the birth certificate as the father."
"Until then, he'd always introduce me to people as 'kid' or 'the kid,' but when he finally got the baby boy, he proudly told everyone the full name whenever he got the chance."
"AND THEN neither that child or the younger brother who came after could live up to the son he'd always imagined having and in my 20s, my dad declared I was his favorite because I came closest to being what he'd hoped for."
"But I still can't imagine being compared to the idealogical, hypothetical baby born of my mother and a man I never met who had died. There would be no living up to that, no reconciliation, ever." - Oblivious_Squid19
"How the child will be impacted by all of this is important, and I hope that OP communicates this to his wife: I get that she's trying to console people who she sees as family, but she needs to understand that this could cause psychological damage for a poor, still-developing baby."
"The ex-inlaws need therapy. Clearly. The wife does, too, if she can't see what's wrong with this. I don't think they dealt with their grief correctly." - Used-Violinist-6244
After receiving feedback, the OP shared a hopefully promising update in another post.
"So, I had a talk with my wife about her dead husband's parents, and like clockwork, they actually came this week too. I am writing this after they left and had a talk with my wife."
"I told my wife that the frequency of these visits is becoming too much, and their comments are bothering me."
"My wife really didn't realize how the comments sounded until I explained them to her."
"I told her I don't mind them coming over now and then but that I want to spend time with her and our daughter when I am not tired from work."
"She promised me she would talk to them and would make sure they gave us our space and that they would stop with the comments."
"She also apologized for not saying anything and said that while she still loves her dead husband, she loves me and would never treat me as anything less than her husband and father of her daughter."
"So yeah, I think things turned out okay."
Some were concerned the parents would need therapy before the boundaries would work.
"Anyone else concerned that the people who keep visiting their dead son's widow and her child with another man WEEKLY might not be terribly receptive to being talked to about boundaries and nuclear family time?"
"They didn't get a chance to have grandchildren, and that is so sad. But it doesn't give them the right to disrupt OP's family time."
"OP, you need to discuss the actual frequency you are comfortable with, blackout days and times, and what to do when they inevitably show up uninvited. Your wife needs to be comfortable telling them it's not a good time for a visit and turn them away." - compassionfever
"I think it's pretty clear they have a lot of unresolved grief surrounding the death of their son, which, while understandable, is definitely crossing reasonable boundaries, and they need help healing."
"It's worse when the mom says, 'She's cute, but could you imagine how cute she would be if... (my son wasn't dead and he was father and she looked like him instead)?'"
"OP's a champ for lasting this long. If I heard this, I would have lost my s**t and kicked them both out (former in-laws) while reminding them they were talking about MY daughter, not their granddaughter. But I have issues and don't care if I hurt feelings." - HeyPrettyLadyMaam
"Even if they were the biological grandparents to this baby, OP would still be within his rights to say that they were visiting too often and making it difficult for him to enjoy time with his family."
"If they are over more often than anyone else in the family, then it's perfectly reasonable for him to want some space. With them also grieving and acting this way, it just adds fuel to the fire."
"I hope they get the help they need and they can maintain a meaningful, much healthier, relationship with the OP, his wife, and their daughter." - theroha
"Your wife's dead former husband's parents need some serious therapy. The fact that they're saying things that are flat-out child abuse is wildly inappropriate."
"OP, you need to protect your family from this bulls**t."
"You're on the right path, and I congratulate you. You've got this, brother!" - jlaw1791
Not only did the subReddit sympathize with the OP and what he was going through, but they were concerned about how much emotional work the family had in front of them.
It was clear the family needed to establish new boundaries, but in order for the grieving parents to respect those boundaries, they might need to process some of their grief and understand the pain they were causing first.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp