Content Warning: Grief, Grieving Process, Deceased Partners
It would be a tremendous understatement to say that the death of a life-long partner would be devastating.
But sometimes we forget how devastating it can be for parents to grieve the loss of their adult child, even if they had been married and started a life of their own, empathized the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor throwaway_4833k was understanding of this grief and knew that his wife still loved her late husband.
But when her late husband's parents started comparing him to her late husband, and also imagined how much better their biological granddaughter would be, the Original Poster (OP) was pushed too far outside of his comfort zone.
He asked the sub:
"WIBTAH (Would I Be the A**hole) if I told my wife's dead husband's parents to stop coming to see our biological daughter?"
The OP loved his wife and their one-year-old daughter.
"I have been married my wife for about two years now and we had our daughter a year ago."
"Now, my wife was married before, she got married pretty young, but her husband died."
"I knew all of this and have been just fine with it."
But his wife's late husband's parents were starting to impede on their happiness.
"Until now."
"See, she's still pretty close to her dead husband's parents."
"And they were excited for the birth of our child. They only had one son, no other children at all."
"They have been coming over to our place about once a week. It was fine at first, but it's gotten kind of suffocating. They have visited us more times than either of her parents or my parents."
"They have even stayed over our house at times, which is something I wouldn't even like even if they were my own parents."
"Another thing... they talk about their dead son... a lot. Which is usually fine, but they have made some comments that make me uncomfortable."
"They even said my daughter kind of looks like him, and his mom even said, 'Oh, if she's this cute, imagine how cute your kids would have been, if only...' when talking to my wife. She was gonna say more, but I think she realized what she was about to say, I was right there."
The OP felt incredibly conflicted.
"I want to be amicable, and I knew that there were gonna be some moments like this, but it's starting to make me feel uncomfortable."
"I don't know how much more I can take of this."
"Would I be the a**hole for setting new boundaries?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
The conversation surrounding this issue was uniquely nuanced.
Everyone understood why the OP was upset, between the frequency of the visits and the kinds of comments and conversations that were occurring during those visits.
However, they also understood that the wife's parents-in-law were struggling with their grief, and while their attachment to their daughter-in-law's new family was misplaced, it was understandable.
But clearly, the situation needed to change.
Some empathized with what the grieving parents were going through but insisted on boundaries.
"NTA... They are clinging to you guys in the wake of losing their son, but there needs to be boundaries in place. It begins with a conversation with your wife and working in unison, and this really needs to be a conversation she has with them, rather than you initiating it." - leaving4me
"NAH."
"You are understandably uncomfortable with the situation. Your wife loves these people like her own parents, which often blinds us to boundary stomping. The late husband's parents are grieving and need more therapy to help them have a healthy relationship with your wife and child."
"Next time you bring it up to your wife, focus on how it makes you feel, and how you think that it can be detrimental to your child."
"It might help you to reframe the discussion to ask her to imagine how intrusive this would be if these were your in-laws."
"Because regardless of the relationship, they are intruding on your life, your home, and potentially your child's mental well-being."
"Every time your wife tells you it's ok, remind her that it's not ok with you. And don't stop reminding her until the two of you are able to come to an agreement that is workable for BOTH of you."
"I say this from the POV of having seen my late SIL's mother lose her mind after my SIL died. She tried to take custody of the kids away from my brother. Everything about her grieving process was incredibly toxic to those around her."
"You are much better off here than my brother was, but that doesn't mean you have to give up your peace of mind in your own home. You're the dad and you get to have a say in how your kid is raised/treated/spoken to." - Background_Camp_7712
"NAH. The parents are overstepping, but they're not being cruel, they are just hurting."
"Bonus grandparents are amazing. This will only be beneficial, but you all need to talk, sweetly and kindly all around, about what this relationship is going to look like right now, because right now it's not working for you." - altdultosaurs
"I would specifically mention to the wife the emotional toll of being compared to her late husband as if OP is just the person standing in since he's gone."
"Maybe even ask if she'd be uncomfortable if he and his family compared her to his exes (not exactly the same situation, but still valid I think) AND compared their biological daughter to any children his exes may have had by this point." - Oblivious_Squid19
"Her not being over the loss of her husband is okay. Her remaining close with his family is okay."
"Her inviting them over more than either of their own parents is excessive. If OP were fine with it, then it'd be okay. Since it's not, weekly is not okay."
"Them reminiscing over the late husband is okay. The parents giving backhanded compliments to their daughter is not okay."
"The wife engaging in that conversation and not shutting it down is abhorrent. Her boundary enforcement in general seems to be lacking."
"OP shouldn't try to shut them out completely just because they're the parents of another man she was with in the past. With that said, the parents are giving him every reason imaginable to not like them and not want them around." - the_saltlord
Others pointed out that this would eventually negatively impact the OP's child, as well.
"The kid's mental health is going to be important in the long run for sure if this keeps up. The baby is already being compared to children that can never be. The baby is being judged on her relation to a dead man… which is none."
"Imagine growing up being constantly compared to somebody that doesn't exist, constantly being a disappointment to the people judging you because they have an ideal in their head that could never possibly be reality." - FreeFallingUp13
"'Imagine growing up being constantly compared to somebody that doesn't exist.'"
"Yup, I lived that life. It f**king sucks. I didn't even think about that while reading and you're 100% right. The OP needs to nip this in the bud before the kid is old enough to remember it." - Jirvey341
"I could never be the child my dad would have loved if I'd been the son he dreamed of. The first time I ever heard him speak my name out loud was when I was 17 and his EX came back pregnant with a boy and let him 'adopt' him by being named on the birth certificate as the father."
"Until then, he'd always introduce me to people as 'kid' or 'the kid,' but when he finally got the baby boy, he proudly told everyone the full name whenever he got the chance."
"AND THEN neither that child or the younger brother who came after could live up to the son he'd always imagined having and in my 20s, my dad declared I was his favorite because I came closest to being what he'd hoped for."
"But I still can't imagine being compared to the idealogical, hypothetical baby born of my mother and a man I never met who had died. There would be no living up to that, no reconciliation, ever." - Oblivious_Squid19
"How the child will be impacted by all of this is important, and I hope that OP communicates this to his wife: I get that she's trying to console people who she sees as family, but she needs to understand that this could cause psychological damage for a poor, still-developing baby."
"The ex-inlaws need therapy. Clearly. The wife does, too, if she can't see what's wrong with this. I don't think they dealt with their grief correctly." - Used-Violinist-6244
After receiving feedback, the OP shared a hopefully promising update in another post.
"So, I had a talk with my wife about her dead husband's parents, and like clockwork, they actually came this week too. I am writing this after they left and had a talk with my wife."
"I told my wife that the frequency of these visits is becoming too much, and their comments are bothering me."
"My wife really didn't realize how the comments sounded until I explained them to her."
"I told her I don't mind them coming over now and then but that I want to spend time with her and our daughter when I am not tired from work."
"She promised me she would talk to them and would make sure they gave us our space and that they would stop with the comments."
"She also apologized for not saying anything and said that while she still loves her dead husband, she loves me and would never treat me as anything less than her husband and father of her daughter."
"So yeah, I think things turned out okay."
Some were concerned the parents would need therapy before the boundaries would work.
"Anyone else concerned that the people who keep visiting their dead son's widow and her child with another man WEEKLY might not be terribly receptive to being talked to about boundaries and nuclear family time?"
"They didn't get a chance to have grandchildren, and that is so sad. But it doesn't give them the right to disrupt OP's family time."
"OP, you need to discuss the actual frequency you are comfortable with, blackout days and times, and what to do when they inevitably show up uninvited. Your wife needs to be comfortable telling them it's not a good time for a visit and turn them away." - compassionfever
"I think it's pretty clear they have a lot of unresolved grief surrounding the death of their son, which, while understandable, is definitely crossing reasonable boundaries, and they need help healing."
"It's worse when the mom says, 'She's cute, but could you imagine how cute she would be if... (my son wasn't dead and he was father and she looked like him instead)?'"
"OP's a champ for lasting this long. If I heard this, I would have lost my s**t and kicked them both out (former in-laws) while reminding them they were talking about MY daughter, not their granddaughter. But I have issues and don't care if I hurt feelings." - HeyPrettyLadyMaam
"Even if they were the biological grandparents to this baby, OP would still be within his rights to say that they were visiting too often and making it difficult for him to enjoy time with his family."
"If they are over more often than anyone else in the family, then it's perfectly reasonable for him to want some space. With them also grieving and acting this way, it just adds fuel to the fire."
"I hope they get the help they need and they can maintain a meaningful, much healthier, relationship with the OP, his wife, and their daughter." - theroha
"Your wife's dead former husband's parents need some serious therapy. The fact that they're saying things that are flat-out child abuse is wildly inappropriate."
"OP, you need to protect your family from this bulls**t."
"You're on the right path, and I congratulate you. You've got this, brother!" - jlaw1791
Not only did the subReddit sympathize with the OP and what he was going through, but they were concerned about how much emotional work the family had in front of them.
It was clear the family needed to establish new boundaries, but in order for the grieving parents to respect those boundaries, they might need to process some of their grief and understand the pain they were causing first.
Expectant Dad Of Two Livid After Brother Questions Why He'd Bring Another Kid Into Bleak World
It's no secret that a lot of people are struggling right now, from the cost of living to job insecurity to food insecurity to poor housing. But that doesn't mean we have to stop living.
For many people, that means still starting and growing their families, while planning how to navigate the world we're currently in, pointed out the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor DesignerOwn1141 and his wife knew that the world around them wasn't at its best right now, but they were eager to grow their family and were excited to bring a third child into the world.
When they announced their pregnancy, his brother's first reaction was to send him articles about how the world was doomed and shame him for bringing a child into it; the Original Poster (OP) wondered if he needed to block his own brother.
He asked the sub:
The OP and his wife were excited to welcome a third child into their family.
"I am 33 and male. My wife is 29."
"We have two sons, a six-year-old boy and a three-year-old boy. Both are happy, healthy, and well taken care of."
"We love being parents to them, and I work very hard to provide a good life for my family."
"My wife is four months pregnant with our third."
The OP's brother's life was very different from his.
"My younger brother has been something of a failure-to-launch case."
"Despite having every advantage, he never got good grades in school, was addicted to 'League of Legends' so severely that he barely scraped by, and spends his days streaming games to nearly no viewers on Twitch."
"I've watched his stream a few times, but he just rages constantly."
"My wife is too classy to ever say so, but I can tell he makes her uncomfortable."
"He's my brother, so I've long wanted to believe he's just bad at communicating with people, but to be frank, he's sort of just an a**hole. He's unapologetic whenever he says something hurtful and more likely to just double down and say, 'No cap.'"
"But if anyone so much as challenges his views, he throws a huge fit."
The OP tried to share his happy news with his brother, but his brother immediately squandered it.
"Recently, we announced she was pregnant with our third child. It's a joyous occasion for us because we wanted three children, and our other two sons are excited about having another brother or sister."
"When I texted my brother the news, he immediately said he couldn't imagine having children with the world the way it was."
"I asked what he meant, and he started sending me these articles about global warming, the plague in Russia, wars around the world, and so on."
"He seems convinced that the world is going to end in ten years tops, and that I'm only bringing up another child to die in the 'water wars.'"
"I was honestly disgusted with him. To tell someone that their unborn child is going to die, that their other children are going to die, is absolutely abhorrent behavior."
"But since he's always been a sensitive s**thead, I just said, 'Whatever, man,' and stopped reading his texts."
"He wouldn't stop. He kept sending me every doomer article. He said that when the clouds evaporate, the earth is going to get 15 degrees hotter. He said that AI is going to hack every government database. He said that China is going to invade Taiwan, and then it'll be war with the US and allies against Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran."
The OP had had enough of his brother's negative feedback.
"Finally, I just told him I was blocking him and thought little of the decision."
"He went and cried to our parents (again, he's the most sensitive s**tbag in the world), and they told me what I did was over the top."
"I know that if I unblock him, he's just going to doomspam me again."
"Am I wrong for just straight-up saying I never want him in my life again?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that they understood why he felt the need to distance himself from his brother.
"NOR. He sounds insufferable."
"He sounds like one of those people who doesn't like his life and so wants everyone else to be miserable too, or makes excuses for why he didn't do more with his life by blaming his problems on some external crisis." - savingrain
"NOR. He's allowed to protect his peace, especially if his brother keeps ignoring boundaries and turning every conversation into another end-of-the-world prediction, and having kids is hardly a reason to apologize for trying to build a good life despite everything going on." - Upper-Cloud9097
"NOR. But your brother is on his way to a full mental breakdown. Send him back cute dog and cat videos. Cute horse videos. Ozzy animal voiceovers."
"Eventually his phone will start thinking he's like me and his feed will calm down." - Present_Original_797
"I mean, my beliefs and thoughts about the future are along the same lines as him, and that’s why I’m an anti-natalist, but there’s something called tact. And personal choice/autonomy."
"If someone chooses to have kids, that’s their choice, and I’d keep my opinions to myself and be supportive, especially if they’re a family member. Spreading doomer content is extremely insensitive and rude. NOR." - EngineerGold4242
"NOR: I wonder whether your brother is displaying sibling jealousy towards you and your family; he recognizes his own shortcomings and can see where he is in life compared to you, and that is his major issue."
"Days filled with unfulfilling computer games and doomspamming others, he has a lot of maturing to do. Block him until or unless he decides to join the adult world and be the uncle he is supposed to be." - iron_redditman
"NOR. I have all those fears and as such actively avoid news about them. I skipped whole paragraphs here for that reason too, lol."
"I’d definitely block my sibling or anybody else who did that to me. I already know all these things; I don’t need constant reminders. All I can do is work on improving my little corner of the world and trudge forward."
"Anyway, protect your peace." - hahagato
"You are not obligated to bond with someone just because you share blood. It’s your peace and your family that you need to protect now. If you decide to go zero contact, it’s perfectly okay!"
"Especially because you and your wife are in charge of two, almost three, little guys, and your mental peace affect directly to them."
"PS. Historically, the world has always been on the edge, but nothing stops us to be what we are, humans trying to get over all the s**t! So don’t let those bad things put you down. We can build a better world by raising kind, lovely people, and it seems you and your wife are doing it. Good luck!" - Camigatoespinace92
Others advised the OP to involve his parents in case they could help his brother.
"Unblock him and then send everything he texts you to both mom and dad. No comments, just forward it."
"They'll think you're sending it, and when they complain, you can tell them that you thought they'd be interested in your brother's articles as well."
"NOR." - No_Address687
"NOR. Your parents don't know the half of it. Forward everything and let them read it for themselves." - Available_Agent3305
"NOR. I’d keep him blocked; your parents are wrong. If you want to be petty, start sending your parents article after article of stuff you know they won’t like. They will get the hint soon enough." - OldieButNotMoldy
"I would also go low contact with the OP's parents. OP is clearly NOT the favorite son. Any boundaries he put up with his brother will be considered wrong. NOR." - Interesting_Novel997
"NOR, but also my first reaction is that your brother isn't a 'sensitive s**tbag,' he is struggling with anxiety/depression and maybe undiagnosed neurodivergence and is drowning in his own ruminations. None of that makes this an appropriate response to a pregnancy announcement; it's clearly not. But he sounds like someone who is clearly struggling here."
"If it were me, I'd be sending your parents anything he previously sent you. If they share your concern after reading a few articles, maybe they'll take steps to help him." - 2kidsnomoney---
"NOR. I'm sorry to say this, OP, but your brother has not been socialized normally. He is a chronically online loser who thinks he can do and say whatever he wants and does not understand there are no consequences because there are often no consequences when he does it in a league match or online."
"It frankly sounds like your concern for him and his future is budding into resentment and contempt, and I feel like, as most brothers would, those are not the feelings you want to hold towards him."
"I have a brother like this. He was diagnosed as an adult with Asperger’s and now just a spectrum autism diagnosis, but he’s a real a**."
"You may have to unblock him to communicate fairly. It may be worth doing this in person because it’s easier for the chronically online to 'craft' their retort rather than be a part of a conversation."
"Before you can do that, though, you need to sit down with your parents. You need to explain and be able to articulate that:"
"1. His reaction to the wonderful news of you having another child crossed the line and was inappropriate."
"2. There need to be reasonable consequences or boundaries because you are no longer willing to put up with that."
"3. It is his call at this point whether or not he wants to be in your life and your children’s lives."
"You have to have their buy-in; otherwise they are just going to continue to coddle and enable this behavior."
"Then you need to sit down with him and your parents, intervention style. You need to present the same argument you did to your parents, and in all honestly, I would question him in return: what was he hoping would have been the outcome of that conversation?"
"Did he want you to say he’s so right, so smart? Did he want you to go to your wife and tell her to abort? Does he feel like he is in a place in his life where he can be your family planner and manager? When he crosses a line, what does he feel should happen?"
"Only when he is directly confronted, and you have the right supports in place, can he be presented with how his behavior affected you and what that could possibly mean for his relationship with you and your growing family." - allison_mossie
The subreddit understood feeling burdened by so much negative information during what should be a happy time of planning and anticipating a new addition to the family, but the OP needed time to think about what he wanted his larger family dynamic to look like.
That might mean removing his brother, so that the OP could protect his own, and by extension, his wife's and children's, mental health, but it might mean minimizing contact with other people, too, if they weren't willing to respect the OP's boundaries he had for his family's life.