Over the past five to ten years, culturally and generationally things, have been thrown into massive upheaval.
And the learning process is slow and painful.
Popular ideas and phrases are examined in a different light.
And no one ever said personal learning was easy.
Case in point...
Redditor Maleficent-Outside23 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"WIBTA if I stopped giving my son driving lessons?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My son is a learner driver and currently in driving school and I have been giving him extra driving practice which is something he wanted."
"Earlier on, he was sometimes too hesitant and lacked confidence when merging on the freeway and changing lanes, which can be dangerous if you go too slow or check the mirrors so much that you stop looking ahead."
"I pointed this out and he is a getting better at it."
"However at times he still hesitates and when he does, I would tell him he is driving like a woman."
"He had no issue with this at all and would correct himself when I said that."
"I did not mean it in a bad way, my daughter is a great driver, picked up driving naturally and passed her test the first time."
"He got upset at me all of a sudden and asked me to stop saying that."
"I have no issue, stopping with that remark and replacing it with something else."
"But I don't appreciate being lectured as if I am sexist when I was just trying to help him, and used the phrase more like an idiom."
"My wife agrees with me and thinks he was being petty but my daughter agrees with my son."
"My son and I used to talk like this all the time when he was younger but lately he and my daughter have become closer and she is influencing his views."
"I think maybe it was wrong to say that but not a**hole level since I did not mean it literally."
"And I am more bothered about how he lectured me and treated me as if I am a massive sexist than if he had just asked me to stop."
"I have been happily married for many years and I am no sexist."
"I was considering stopping the extra practice drives and just letting him use his paid instructor."
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP WBTA the A**hole.
"However at times he still hesitates and when he does, I would tell him he is driving like a woman."
"Before I read any further to make sure I called you out for being sexist."
"It doesn't matter if you don't feel sexist."
"Saying sexist s**t makes you sexist." ~ zalkaare
"OP, guess what!"
"Your wife is either sexist against women too or afraid to go against you because you clearly use emotional blackmail to punish your loved ones when they call you on your BS." ~ Mundane-Currency5088
"The amount of older Gen women with internalized misogyny is insane."
"I feel bad for her, and Im glad her daughter and son were able to recognize and call out harmful behavior towards women despite their two parent's beliefs." ~Objective_End5686
"You can totally be a misogynist and a woman."
"I figured out that unfortunate fact when my daughter came out as trans (I finally figured out my main issue was I couldn't wrap my head around someone wanting to be a woman who didn't 'have' to)."
"So yeah, I had to do some reflecting and growing and becoming a less shi**y person."
"I wish the OP could use that as their takeaway from all of this rather than being butt hurt at being called sexist (which they are being with their language and the thought processes that lie behind that language)." ~ tuffykenwell
"I think he means quick idiom."
"Meaning 'I use women as an example because they are subhuman representations of the negative versions of a thing IE-an idiom...'"
"Then OP is all yes!"
"I speak like a raving sexist, but I'm going to punish and emotionally blackmail my kid for standing up for his sister, who is, by the way, is a fantastic driver."
"He should just know that even though my daughter will grow up feeling less than a human being, no one is allowed to question the MAN of the house." ~ Mundane-Currency5088
OP came back to address the Reddit community.
"Ok, I get it."
"I will stop using the term. That was not the issue anyway."
"I would have had no problem if he just asked me to do so without accusing me."
"I was using it more like a quick idiot so he could realize for himself and correct himself without me telling him what to do."
"But I get how it can be considered insensitive."
"I however definitely do not believe women are bad drivers or anything like that."
Reddit continued to weigh in.
"Came here to say it!!!"
"The edit makes it worse!"
"It's so frustrating that men STILL think using women or femininity as weakness is okay in any way!!"
"YTA dude." ~ MTnarwal
"I know! The edit was even worse than the initial posting!"
"He thinks just because his son actually told him that he was being a sexist jerk, that his son is still wrong."
"How dare this child to speak up to him,' and maybe tell him what the rest of the world hears when he says stupid sexist stuff like this."
"I worry about his wife, not hearing anything wrong, but good for his kids for actually having the emotional intelligence to pick up on this and tell their dad when he's wrong."
"Although from his replies, I'm gathering that he's not willing actually to hear what everyone is telling him."
"Very sad, considering he has a daughter. YTA." ~ Roadgoddess
"100% this."
"And also, First, your son 'asks you' not to say that, but then the next minute, you're saying he lectured you?"
"Which is it?"
'Sounds to me like you pushed back, and so did he."
"But in the event that he truly just went off on you, then it's much more likely that this hasn't been a phrase that he's just fine with you using (for all of the obvious incredibly sexist reasons)."
"And in all likelihood, it's maybe been bothering him for a while."
"The other part of this is the way you chose to 'correct' the behavior."
"You insulted him to teach him? Really?"
"Do you think maybe that's part of the problem?"
"Maybe he wants you to teach, remind, and nudge him, not ridicule and shame him into remembering certain concepts."
"Because quick idiom or not, sexist or not (and yes, it is an incredibly sexist thing to say 0also, no, being married to a woman or having a daughter does not automatically clear you of being sexist])."
"Your entire approach was awful."
"YTA already, sir."
"But YWNBTA, if you stopped 'teaching' him because it would probably take a lot of stress from the both of you."
"If he's receiving formal training, then let him receive it." ~ ittetsu1988
"I guess OP never heard of the little old lady from Pasadena."
"Or that women are statistically much better drivers than men, which is why their insurance rates are so much lower."
"Or that if it walks and talks like a sexist duck, it is, in fact, a sexist duck. YTA." ~ Prudent_Plan_6451
"YTA. You are sexist."
"You deserve to be treated like a misogynist because you are one."
"Why would you even make that remark?"
"You even admitted you knew it wasn't true because your daughter is a good driver." ~ mathxjunkii
"YTA... holy s**t."
"How can women drivers be bad while you simultaneously say your daughter is a good driver?"
"This is not a saying or an idiom. It's a sexist P[oint] O[f] V[iew] that holds no water (women statistically get in fewer accidents than men and pay lower rates for insurance)."
"Your son doesn't want you to say that because he knows in his core, it's ugly and bigoted."
"Maybe your daughter should finish teaching him to drive?"
"Seems as though she is adept in her skill and moral compass."
"Words matter, and kids don't forget the things their parents say, shape up my dude." ~ Ingenuity_Hopeful
"I love that his son has grown up and decided for himself that these sayings aren't okay despite the fact that OP states he used to make statements with his son all the time growing up."
"So he was ACTIVELY teaching him to be sexist, yet the son didn't follow with his beliefs."
"Which isn't normal."
"Sexism and racism aren't born. It's learned."
"So generally, when someone's parents teach you to be one way, you grow up believing it."
"I'm very happy his son has decided to break that belief." ~ BriCheese96
"YTA. It is sexist of you to say 'driving like a woman' to imply poor driving, and I'm glad your son and daughter are calling you out on it."
"You saying 'I'm not sexist' doesn't mean you're not sexist--if you're using phrases like that, then you are being sexist."
"It seems like overkill to stop giving your son driving lessons."
"Driving lessons are for his safety, and it's much safer to get lessons from parents too than just relying on the instructor because he'll get more total hours of lessons if you're helping."
"Just stop saying it and keep giving him the lessons." ~ Building_Burning
Well, OP, Reddit has some strong feelings about your actions.
You may want to do some closer listening.
And maybe some research.
Your son can be a good teacher, it seems.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp