Money is the root cause cited for the majority of divorces, so having a partner who is good at financial management should be a plus.
But what if one partner wants the other to be more generous with family than they're willing to be?
A man whose fiancée has asked him to give a large sum of money to her parents turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
Gullible-Display4533 asked:
"AITAH for refusing to pay off my pregnant fiancee's parents' mortgage, when they are under the threat of foreclosure, when I could "easily' afford to do so?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"About two years ago, I (31, male) met my fiancée (26, female). We have a baby on the way. The due date is in May. I also have a ten-year-old son from a previous relationship."
"I am a professional musician. My band has a sizable local/regional following. I also privately teach different instruments to mostly children and do music production for some significantly bigger musicians/bands."
"About three weeks ago, my fiancée got a call from her mother. My fiancée is the oldest of three and her younger siblings are in college."
"Her mom informed her that they received a letter that the 'acceleration clause' was being invoked on their mortgage due to months of non-payment and that if they do not pay it off by late February, the house would be foreclosed on."
"The house had belonged to my fiancée's grandmother before it was inherited by my fiancée's parents about 15 years ago when her grandmother died. The house was paid off, but they took out a mortgage on it because they needed the money."
"My fiancée lived in the house since she was two years old. My fiancée has asked me to use my savings to pay off the house. It would be about 15% of my savings to do so."
"I have a sizeable amount of savings. Despite my parents not wanting me to go into music, or at least wait until I graduated college, I went into the music industry full-time from the time I graduated high school."
"It has largely worked out for me. But, knowing the ebbs and flows of the industry, and especially with having a kid so young, I have been very vigilant about savings."
"Having a substantial savings account is important to me given my kids (have one, have one on the way, and want to potentially have a third) because I want to be able to pay for college and help them buy a house (things my parents could not dream of doing)."
"Also, you never know when times are going to be lean as a musician. This is why I am hesitant to want to pay off their mortgage. Additionally, I am concerned about setting the precedent that I bail out the family."
"My fiancée is quite upset about the whole situation. She says we would not be hurting at all if I pay it off and I have no reason to think that I will not continue to make the amount of money I have made in the last couple of years."
"If anything, there is a good chance it will go up. She sees it as I could 'easily' pay it, but I am refusing to do so."
"I see it as protecting our long-term financial stability. If a foreclosure happens, her parents will get the equity they have in the house and be able to afford a different place."
"While I know she is emotionally attached to that particular house, I do not think it is wise to sacrifice our financial stability for that reason alone. Her parents need to be in a place that they can afford."
"AITAH?"
The OP later added:
"I feel I need to clarify some things based on the comments."
"1. I have zero interest in owning even a portion of this house. First, it is an old home that in my two years of knowing my in-laws is in a constant state of needing repairs."
"Second, the HOA is the 'HOA from hell' (my in-laws' words). They fine people for the smallest things and are incredibly restrictive. My fiancée tried to convince me to buy in her parents' neighborhood when I was looking at houses a year ago. I refused."
"2. Even if I wanted to buy the house, buying the house for fair market value would be about 80% of my savings. I am not tying that much of my money in a single house."
"3. I do not know all the details of my in-laws' financial situation. What I do know is that they own a couple of restaurants and they were struggling when they took out the mortgage."
"4. In the last couple of weeks I have learned that the letter was not the first issue with the bank. They have been having issues with consistly paying the mortgage for some years now."
"They have done mortgage modifications and the like. But, the bank is fed up because my in-laws have been non-paying and non-responsive for five months."
"I absolutely love my partner. But, I would not do this for my own parents. Not because I do not love them, but because this is not a wise use of financial resources."
"If the situation was homelessness or I pay, then that would be different. But, they have a huge amount of equity they can cash in and get a place they can afford."
"They are asking me to pay it off in full. They have been having issues with paying for the last 4 years where they will often go multiple months without paying, only paying a portion, etc..."
"In other words, this has been going on for years."
"Three weeks ago was the first time my fiancée or I was made aware of an issue because the bank is now fed up after multiple attempts to work with them. They have not paid anything for I believe 5 months at this point."
"I have to think about my kids, my partner, and our long-term financial future. I have no degree and no guarantee of if (or how long) I am going to be making the type of money I am making now."
"I am easily going to spend much more than 50% of my current wealth raising the kid over the next 18 years regardless. Kids are hella expensive which is a big reason I do not want to do what she is asking."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - more information needed
Redditors decided the OP was not wrong to refuse to bail out his future in-laws (NTA).
"It sounds like these people are really bad at managing money. They had a paid off house, and chose to take out a mortgage on it. And they've been unable to keep up with that mortgage for years."
"NTA. Do not bail them out. You need to prioritize your future and your kids' futures." ~ No-Stress-7034
"I've worked in banking and investment management for almost 40 years. Some of that time was spent in mortgage lending. My son is also in the music business so I know first (or second) hand the ups and downs of unstable cash flow in that line of work."
"Do we all remember the events of 2020-2021 during the pandemic when the entertainment industry was brought to its knees? I'm very impressed that after all of that you can sit here today and have a sizeable savings just four years later!"
"BUT… if you use it now to bail out your child's grandparents, how do you provide food, formula, diapers, and shelter for YOUR family if the world finds itself in another pandemic? That's the first consideration. Your children rely on you for that—not the other way around."
"Unless there has been an extended illness, job loss through no fault of their own, or some other extenuating circumstance, grandma & grandpa are old enough to know how they got here and what they need to do to fix it. And relying on their children for a hand out is not the solution."
"As a banker, let me tell you how this will go. Even if you pay off the note and obtain title to the property, there is likely to be, as others have mentioned, back taxes (however the lender may have paid that so they wouldn't lose their rights to the property through a tax sale)."
"In my experience, people who default on their mortgage do that after they've stopped paying everything else first. There's a good chance maintenance hasn't been addressed in years. They probably have thousands of dollars in credit card debt, car loans, etc..."
"If you put money into this, don't expect to ever see it paid back. They will not pay you back for a loan. They will not pay you rent. And they will not pay for insurance, upkeep, and taxes."
"And sooner or later, they will come looking for another handout for the next pickle they find themselves in."
"Take your fiancée to a meeting with an attorney or financial planner and let her hear it from them what a terrible idea this would be for everyone." ~ Muted_Yellow_1640
"NTA. These folks had a paid-off house. They mortgaged it to spend money they didn't have. Then, they didn't pay the mortgage."
"You absolutely shouldn't spend your money (not 'our' money, as your fiancée says) to fix this. You don't want to create the expectation that you will be their ATM."
"Your fiancée and her family can work together to figure this out."
"You should consider getting a prenup. If your fiancée handles money in a similar manner to her parents, you might be better off maintaining separate finances." ~ teresajs
"Who's to say that once OP pays off their mortgage, they won't mismanage their money again and ask OP for a loan or more gifted money?" ~ Beach_Girl65
"NTA. You aren't their 'break glass in emergency' when things get bad." ~ Efficient_Most439
No one thought the OP bailing out his fiancée's parents was a good idea.
She might not like that answer, but in the end, it's OP's money.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp