Divorce sucks.
It's painful and a huge life upheaval.
But would you or should you compare it to death?
Some may take issue.
Case in point...
Redditor New_Newspaper4911 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my friend her divorce is not the same as my fiancé dying?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"Listen, I didn't even want to get into comparing the two situations to begin with."
"So there were more than a few occasions I let it go when my friend made the comments."
"Anything about how that divorce is a death and she's grieving the relationship was fine."
"I initially wasn't even equating it to my experience which was 3 years ago, because she's going through it now and my experiences just aren't even relevant."
"But then she kept making and escalating the comments to the point of direct comparison."
"How this must be what I went through with David dying and how all of her future dreams are dead, just like how mine were."
"We were at a get-together and she was talking about things when someone else asked how things were going."
"And she again brings me into the discussion of her divorce by talking about how dealing with a divorce is like watching a relationship die from cancer."
"She gestures to me and says how she really understands now, we're both single widows now, etc."
"Maybe I should have bit my tongue but I just sort of blurted that it wasn't the same thing at all."
"Her husband didn't die, he chose to leave, and they actually got to give marriage a shot."
"My friend was shocked and offended, she ended up crying about how she just wanted to relate and I don't even know if I should apologize."
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA?:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared our OP was NOT the A**hole.
It's a tricky situation.
Let's hear some thoughts...
"NTA. There are limits to how sensitive and compassionate you should have to be."
"When someone is tacky enough to continually compare your fiancé's death to her divorce, meh, she gets what she gets."
"I am so very sorry for your loss. Hug." ~ Brave-Cheesecake9431
"She is definitely the AH, but I can get it."
"Dying isn't someone choosing to leave you. She's in denial." ~ Apprehensive-Jelly42
"Our neighbor, we're not friends but we're very close, if that makes sense?"
"She lost her husband to sudden death at a young age."
"They had been together since she was 14 and happy and she loved him deeply."
"She had a good job and was able to carry on financially."
"One thing she shared (unprompted, her choice) was how difficult it was for her to deal with her anger."
"She was angry that he died and left her alone, but how can you be reasonably angry at someone who has died?"
"It's not their choice or their fault (in her case)."
"But yet her emotion of anger was still there, and she had to find a way to process it."
"She felt guilty about feeling angry at him, but she still had that emotion."
"Anyway, point is, yes, there are literally dozens of ways where the loss of a partner or spouse is just fundamentally very different than the end of a relationship."
"And even if it weren't - even if they both lost a loved one to death from cancer - everyone's experience is their own."
"How presumptuous to presume they must experience the same feelings."
"And how insensitive to bring up someone else's 3 year old grief in processing yours."
"If THEY bring it up fine."
"If YOU bring it up and force it to the forefront of their mind, you're a tool." ~ DevilSilver
"This... I've had bad break ups with a long term partner and honestly I just wanted to talk as little about it as possible."
"Sure there was days where I would talk to a close friend and rant for a bit 'why did this go wrong...'"
"Or how weird it felt being alone."
"But to make it a every chance I get to gather sympathy and compare myself to widows."
"That is just so bizarre to me."
"I get people handle things differently in a break up/divorce."
"But this seems so over the top to stick yourself to someone else's grieve and make them live it all over again kind of, just to be in the spotlight."
"Woman needs some therapy." ~ Dangerous-WinterElf
"I'm divorced. I feel like my ex died, because the person I thought he was ceased to exist."
"I'm only mentioning that to say this... I would never say that around anyone who had literally lost their spouse."
"And I sure as hell wouldn't say that I knew how they feel!"
"I have no idea how it actually feels."
"She's being extremely thoughtless here." ~ SimAlienAntFarm
"Why are we assuming that she is trying to 'get some of her status' instead of just being incredibly tactless in putting herself and OP on the same group as a way to cope?"
"Her friend should have been more tactful."
"But everyone in this post is ignoring the fact that OP allowed her friend to repeatedly make comments about how divorce felt like a death."
"And draw comparisons between herself and OP."
"The fact is that a lot of resources for coping with divorce identify it as a kind of death and say the grieving process is the same."
"If you can make the leap that OPs friend is a narcissistic, cheating a**hole, you can make the shorter leap in logic that her friend read in one of the many divorce resources about you it was similar to a death then made comments of escalating tactlessness to OP."
"OP doesn't mention in the post that her friend is an a**hole in other ways so this is the much more likely unfolding of events than her friend being a narcissistic cheater."
"OP should have indicated to her friend that this line of thinking was hurtful to her the first time it was stated and set a hard boundary." ~ NAparentheses
"Seriously. This is as bad if not worse than calling the dead your 'ex.'"
"She's a divorcee and OP is a widow."
"They are not the same."
"OP lost her fiancé through no fault of her own."
"She'll never see him again."
"This 'friend' will have chances to see this guy again."
"Definitely do not apologize, OP."
"If anything, she should be apologizing to you. NTA."
"And know that we're all sorry for your loss!" ~ NightWitch65
"NTA. Her remarks were insensitive."
"She can be sad about her divorce without bringing you up into it."
"I'm sorry for your loss." ~ TwoCentsPsychologist
"NTA. My best friend lost her husband suddenly a few years back."
"And I don't ever discuss my marital issues with her because I know she'd give anything to have a petty argument with her husband if it meant having him back."
"I cannot even imagine being widowed."
"And I respect that her loss is unique and infinitely more painful than anything I've experienced to-date."
"Do not apologize and I'm so very sorry for your loss." ~ chefboyardeejr
"NTA- When my mom lost her husband, people would say this to her as well."
"She also found it mind boggling because she went through a divorce, only to get remarried and have that husband die."
"They are clearly not the same thing."
"Your partner dying and your partner leaving you are not even in the same ballpark."
"I used to get so pissed when people would make this comparison because it's always people who Never lost a partner to death before."
"I'm sorry for your loss and I'm sorry your friend is such an idiot." ~ rybread31299
"NTA. I'm sorry she's going through a divorce and it's kicking her heart's butt."
"But the two experiences are not comparable."
"Her grief and experience with it stand on their own and have no need for constant comparison to the loss you suffered."
"It's like she's jealous that your loss is a more 'justified' grief and that people will take her feelings about her divorce if she frames it that way."
"Which is selfish and gross and wrong."
"Maybe you need some distance from her?"
"Your reaction was very understandable, by the way."
"You don't owe her an apology in my opinion." ~ CafeConCajeta
"NTA. I just tried to imagine myself saying something like that around one of my friends whose husband a few years ago."
"The idea made me feel… rotten and cold."
"I'm sure she is trying to relate AND trying to get attention by dramatically comparing it to something like what you experienced."
"But why?"
"Either she lacks social skills, perspective taking ability, or she is vindictive." ~ WildChanterelle
OP... sorry for your loss.
Reddit is in agreement, no one should be commandeering your grief.
Divorce is like death, but it's not death.
It maybe time for a little distance for you and your friend.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp