When two people with children break up, the people around them might be concerned about how the relationship ending might impact the kids.
But few think about how those impacts will continue in the future, cringed the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Swe3tieMaize's marriage ended six years prior when her ex-husband cheated on her and started a relationship with his affair partner.
But when it came time for their daughter to graduate, the Original Poster (OP) noticed how uncomfortable her daughter was with spending time with all of them together.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for refusing to include my cheating ex-husband's new wife in our daughter's graduation photos?"
The OP's daughter was impacted by the end of her parents' marriage.
"My daughter (18 Female) just graduated from high school, and it was a huge deal for us."
"Her dad and I divorced six years ago when he left me for his now-wife. Our daughter stayed with me full-time, but still had a relationship with him."
Her daughter wasn't comfortable with all of them coming together for her graduation.
"At her graduation, he showed up with his wife and tried to orchestrate a big group photo with everyone, including her."
"I quietly asked my daughter if she was okay with that, and she said no, so I stepped in and said we were doing separate photos."
"His wife made a whole scene, saying I was bitter and setting a bad example."
"I calmly said, 'This isn't your moment to be included in. You weren't around for the late nights, the tears, or the tutoring. This photo is for the people who were.'"
The OP's ex and friends lashed out at her.
"My ex is now blasting me to mutual friends, saying I embarrassed him and 'diminished his wife's role in our family.' Was I wrong for protecting my daughter's boundary?"
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that she did the right thing by respecting her daughter's wishes.
"NTA. You played the role of the villain, so your daughter didn't have to. She knows what you did for her, and that's all that really matters. Let the rest think what they want because that keeps their gaze off your daughter being the one who didn't want to do it." - Crazy4Swayze420
"NTAH. You asked your daughter and acted accordingly."
"On a side note....who cares what the cheater thinks, he can go kick rocks and so can his new wife. This was your daughter's moment, not anyone else's." - FordT852
"NTA. You were protecting your daughter's boundaries that her dad had no problem stomping over. He embarrassed himself by assuming his daughter was okay with having his wife included without asking her first." - Ok-Region-8207
"This wasn't about being bitter. It was about honoring the people who actually showed up, not just the ones who showed up for the camera." - IconicAngeel
"NTA. Considering your daughter wasn't okay with it is enough. It's not you being bitter but you respecting your daughter's wishes, which is something your piece of s**t ex and his wife lack." - LilacFilter
"My ex and I always took separate photos of her former boyfriend of four years was involved. I was bitter about the role he played or tried to play in my daughters' lives. However, they all thought it was important to include him for some reason."
"You asked your daughter what she wanted, and she made the decision. That is what you need to let the new woman know. I have a friend who feels the same way as your daughter and is still getting the same responses."
"I hope your daughter is able to express her concerns herself." - SaltPassenger5441
"NTA."
"Your statement is true. But, more importantly, your daughter didn't want her included. You respected your daughter's wishes and protected her from 'being the bad guy' in the process."
"Kudos." - Anxious-Routine-5526
"NTA. Once your daughter said she wasn't okay with her dad's new wife being in the picture, that should have been the end of it. The day wasn't about either of them, after all, it was about your daughter. Clearly, they didn't respect that, and your comment was a perfect summation of why they should have." - CatLady7423
Others agreed and couldn't imagine the parents coming together for a photo.
"I'm sorry, what was her 'role' in the family? Oh, yeah, she's the one he was sleeping with when he left his wife. She's got a lot of f**king balls to throw a little fit and cause a scene."
"You don't get to walk around, acting like a pillar of the community unless you're actually a pillar of the community. If you blew up a family sleeping with a married man, then you lay low quietly over in the corner at big events like this. I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to understand." - BiscuitsPO
"'Diminished his wife's role in your family.' Tell him that they don't make special banners or party hats for homewreckers. NTA." - Aggravating-Pie-5565
"NTA. You can't diminish something that doesn't exist. She means less than nothing to your daughter, clearly, and since it was her graduation and her choice, she should respect that."
"You didn't make the choice, you were adult and mature enough to ask your daughter her wishes on the matter and to follow that. Good job, mom. Not your fault your ex is an a**. NTA." - goddessofspite
"I would have told him, 'I diminished her contribution, for the sake of keeping the peace. If I had recognized her contribution to breaking up our daughter's happy family and being a piece of s**t, we'd have been fighting all day... so yeah, I diminished it, for our daughter's sake. It's called being the bigger person; you should really learn about it.'" - ridik_ulass
"It's true that the daughter had to speak, but the girl's father is also quite shameless for taking his lover/current one to his daughter's celebration. The person who destroyed their family is present and still wanting to take a photo. Soon she'll want OP's daughter to call her mom. If it were, the OP would cut off these friends, who are clearly friends with her ex and not hers." - Future-Battle-4926
"It's not even necessarily about cheating. When you show up late in the game, you don't necessarily deserve the credit. My stepmom didn't even meet my dad until many years after my parents' last-ditch attempt to make it work."
"I was already into my teens by the time she arrived on the scene, and she never tried to encroach on my mom's space or to be included more than I was comfortable with. It's been decades, and she and I are genuinely friends now. But to have the audacity to come in during the seventh inning and claim the glory is bad enough, but to do it as a home-wrecker like in the post is unfathomable."
"The absolute brazenness of some people is a head shaker for me." - PsychologicalGain757
"If the mistress were a decent human being, she would know that this day should be about your daughter and her parents. She definitely should stay on the side and not bother with the group pic unless your daughter asks for it herself. How dense is she? NTA." - Stadenka1234
"Some parents never learn that just because they get a new spouse, the kid didn't necessarily get a new parent. Especially when the step-parent was an affair partner."
"You did the right thing, and this is just one of those times you take a bullet for your kid so she doesn't have to explain that she didn't want the photo. It sucks, but we do it for them. His family will move on to something else to be outraged about."
"Thank you for standing by your daughter even though it made your life more complicated. That's momming done right." - Strange_Depth_5732
But there were a few Redditors who believed the OP could have handled the situation better.
"You weren't the AH when you asked your daughter, but your rant at the end has me questioning why your daughter actually said no."
"YTA because of your bitter rant at the end. It's been six years. Obviously, you weren't right for each other. Move on." - Terravarious
"Mostly NTA, a little YTA. It's your daughter's graduation, so she should have made the final decision. Where was she when all this was going down?" - DMPinhead
"YTA. His new wife is in her life, and I think you asking your daughter if she was okay about the photo put pressure on her."
"Your daughter didn't approach you and tell you she was uncomfortable. Instead, you took the initiative to make a fuss about it, and your daughter didn't want you to ruin her day, thinking it would be, and just agreed with you for peace's sake."
"A photo is harmless, and you were the only one who demonstrated that you're willing to harbor a grudge on your daughter's graduation."
"You're not fooling anyone." - zeroconflicthere
"ESH. Instead of saying, 'I'm honoring my daughter's wishes,' you centered it on you by talking about caretakers and late nights." - MissionHoneydew2209
"YTA, which is exactly the role you were supposed to be here. Being a parent means taking all those roles on. Sometimes you need to be an asshole to protect them. When these 'mutual' friends say something to you."
"You can say with pride, 'Yes, I was the a**hole that didn't want to include a home wrecker in my daughter's graduation day.' Do not mention that your daughter didn't want her involved. You've already taken the role on, own it with pride. You are doing what a parent should do!" - Mysterious_Iffice_82
The subReddit could empathize with the daughter's discomfort in being around both of her parents and stepmother at the same time, but it was her decision whether she wanted to spend time with them and take a photo with them.
Most applauded the OP for siding with her daughter and supporting her wishes, but some wondered if the daughter would have made other choices if her mother weren't so "supportive."
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp