One of the joys of having friends is being able to go out with them and experience new things.
But that won't work if one of the friends is made to feel uncomfortable, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor Ok_Significance_8479 regularly went out with his female friends to gay bars, where they felt safer hanging out without being hit on.
But when he wanted to go to a lesbian bar where he wouldn't be hit on for a change, the Original Poster (OP) was surprised by how angry his friends were with him.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for taking my straight female friends out to a lesbian bar because they always make me go to gay bars?"
The OP wanted to do something new for friends' night.
"I'm (26 Male) and straight. I have a group of friends with a few more women than men, and we go out a couple of nights a week. Every time we go out, the girls all insist we end up at a gay club at the end of the night."
"To be clear, I don't normally mind, but it's getting excessive. I can't remember the last time they didn't insist we go, and lately, I've been getting hit on a lot, and some of the drunk guys at the bars get very handsy."
"It's gotten uncomfortable at this point, so I've started leaving early to go home or hang out with other friends. Some of the other guys in our group feel the same way."
The OP suggested trying out a different bar.
"I tried to bring it up, but they don't listen and accuse me of acting homophobic, which I am not."
"My sister is bi and suggested our city has a Lesbian bar and I should take them there to see how they react."
"To be clear, this bar does openly welcome straight and cis-gendered people so we weren't violating their space."
The OP's female friends were furious.
"Anyway, there was a basketball game last night and this bar sets up a game night whenever our local NBA team is playing. I suggested we go there to watch the game and most of the group came along."
"They immediately got really uncomfortable when other women started flirting with them at the bar and offering to buy them drinks. It lasted about an hour before the girls all took off."
"A couple of the other guys and I actually ended up staying, the women there were all really cool and we made some new friends."
The evening ended in a big argument among the friends.
"The group chat this morning has been a big argument. The girls all say it was f**ked up that we took them there."
"I told them to stop acting homophobic."
"The other guys in the chat are mostly supporting me and saying they have no leg to stand on since we always constantly agree to join them at gay clubs and never complain."
"I actually want to start going there regularly on game nights; it's a really fun atmosphere and everyone we met was awesome."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some agreed with the OP as a welcome change to their plans.
"NTA. Sounds like your female friends only think about their own comfort level at any given time they are out with you. They subject you to sexual harassment so that they don't have to receive any and blame your discomfort on homophobia."
"I'm pretty sure NO ONE wants to be touched and hit on by anyone they aren't interested in, regardless of sexuality. Which is why the girls want to be at the gay bar in the first place!! Find new female friends..." - Weekend_Breakfast
"NTA. I guarantee part of the allure of gay bars for these friends is a nice dance and drinks atmosphere without as many guys hitting on them, and they're completely failing to understand that it is sometimes different for you." - EdgeCityRed
"NTA. It's unfortunate though, that the girls in your group couldn't grasp that their discomfort was likely the same as what you and the other guys were feeling. Hopefully, your group can work something out. I'm happy that you were able to make some new friends, though." - treadhead101
"NTA. I definitely get why you feel the way you do, though I wonder if the reason your female friends feel more comfortable at a gay bar is so that they can just relax there without worrying about people harassing them."
"I've heard before that women prefer gay bars for that very reason. Have you ever asked them why they prefer it there?"
"Like sit and have an actual convo and see if there is an issue they're trying to avoid, and then if there is, try and be more proactive in bars in general about making sure everyone is safe and comfortable?" - Bite_Me_16
"NTA. Sounds like they just wanted to go to a gay bar to avoid flirtation."
"When it's flipped on them, they get really uncomfortable."
"They're seriously the implicitly homophobic ones because the only reason they are around those gay people is to avoid flirtation, not to have a good time in a place that just happens to host gay people mainly."
"Plus, what the h**l do they expect when they go to a bar? For people to NOT flirt? All they have to do is decline. Most people have enough sense to take the hint, and if you leave your drink unattended, just order a new one."
"Also, in my opinion, lesbians tend to be some of the nicest and least entitled people out there. So they're really good to hang around with, so glad to see you've made friends there." - WoodenTreacle1717
"NTA. This is a crystal clear case of 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander.'"
"I assume they wanted to go to male gay bars because they feel more comfortable (i.e., not being hit on all the time). But you were being hit on all the time, and that would be annoying. And they insisted you were homophobic for not liking being hit on all the time."
"So, it's perfectly reasonable to go to a female, gay bar. And you made new friends. Yet they were uncomfortable being hit on."
"Honestly, it sounds like the best answer here is for the group to split up, with the women going to the male gay bar and the men going to the female, gay bar. Everyone wins. Friend groups don't have to hang out as a single unit all the time."
"But, at this point, the girls are being the AHs, particularly because they labeled you homophobic for not wanting to be hit on all the time." - bmyst70
"I'd say the friends are definitely fetishizing gay men, but OP and his male buddies seem great. They had a fun time at the lesbian bar and made new friends there! That's not treating it like a zoo (cough, like the female friends are with the male gay bar) but just finding it a chill atmosphere with like-minded people."
"I guarantee he and his dude buddies are welcome back there anytime because they treat it as a bar with human beings in, rather than his female friends who are disturbing the atmosphere of the other gay bar for their own purposes." - purple235
But others had a much more prominent concern: taking up room in LGBTQ-friendly spaces.
"ESH. Honestly, can y'all just figure your s**t out on your own and leave gay people the h**l out of it? Let us enjoy our own bars in peace, thank you."
"I'm fully on your side, though, OP. But I hope you do take a moment to consider that your discomfort is what they feel at every straight bar."
"I just think this means you guys need to find better straight bars to go to. Not every bar is one where people are constantly coming up and hitting on you." - alluce1414
"NTA, but you guys should really stop going to gay/lesbian bars. Generally, people go to these bars to meet people, and it kinda sucks accidentally hitting on someone who isn't interested because they're straight. You might technically be welcome, but it really just seems like you're using them, which is lame." - Wild_Excitement_4083
"Another lesbian here, and I hate this guy and all his friends. They only have EVERY OTHER F**KING BAR they can go to safely."
"Stop using gay people as props. Go to a bar and leave these people to enjoy their space without your friend group drama." - laurenconnor9
"If I started hitting on a woman in a gay bar and she reacted badly because she's homophobic, and then I found out she was only in the bar because her straight male friend was trying to 'teach her a lesson,' I would not describe that man as 'great'. He just violated a safe space and exposed me to homophobia for his own ends."
"OP isn't the a**hole for turning the table on his friends, but he is an a**hole for using gay people to do it without their consent." - larkharrow
"The idea that it's some kind of 'gotcha' that OP took his friends to a lesbian bar to experience the horror of getting hit on is icky. This isn't 'ally' behavior. It's invading people's spaces who have very few safe spaces left and bringing a bunch of homophobic baggage. Queer bars are generally tolerant and accepting, not places for straight people to act out voyeuristic tourism."
"ESH, including a lot of the commenters. Get to know the patrons of Queer bars, sure, but don't bring your friends there because you think it's funny to make them uncomfortable by assuming they'll be subjected to sexual harassment (from people who are completely within their rights to think other patrons are in the community). What in the actual f**k." - mkswords
The subReddit could understand where the OP was coming from with being frustrated about his female friends wanting to go to bars without being hit on and without being willing to give him and their own guy friends the same honor every once in a while.
But there was an issue with this logic, as well, because while the OP was trying to show his friends where he was coming from, he was also dishonoring the people these clubs were actually made for.
Trans Man Considers Breaking Off Engagement After Fiancé Wants Him To Wear A Dress For Wedding
KimJane Photography/GettyImages
A lot of people often say, "Believe people when they tell you who they are the first time."
It's one of life's truest (and ignored) sayings.
Believe a person when they are drunk and spew words as well.
Often, a few drinks will help a person let loose on how they really feel.
And then take note.
Redditor dude-e23 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback, so naturally, he came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
He asked:
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"Hi, I'm sorry for the potentially bad English; it's not my first language anyway."
"I'm a 26-year-old male who recently got engaged to my fiancè, a 28-year-old male."
"For the sake of the story, I'm going to call him Mark."
"I'm a trans man, and this will be relevant to the story."
"Mark and I have been going out for 4 years, and I wasn't on testosterone when we met, and only started recently."
"Mark had never had any issues with my gender identity; he always respected my pronouns and my gender, or so I thought."
"Recently, we were over at his parents' when the topic of the wedding planning came up."
"His mom asked about our wedding outfits, and Mark, who was a bit drunk at this point, said, 'I want to put (my name) in a dress so SHE can be prepared for HER future wifey duty.'"
"I was stunned, and I could see how uncomfortable his mom was."
"I said we were leaving and took Mark home."
"It happened yesterday, and I'm genuinely thinking of breaking it off."
"I've struggled a lot with my identity, and a big part of my family cut me off after my coming out."
"Right now, Mark is at work, and I pretended to be asleep when he left, but now I can't stop overthinking small details like how he used some feminine term in bed or how he always hated when I cut my hair short."
"But maybe he thought it was funny, and he was too drunk to realize what he was saying."
The OP was left to wonder:
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A-hole.
"Yeah, so it turns out that this isn't the case."
"Please don't marry him."
"He fundamentally doesn't respect who you are."
"And to be honest, this would be a disturbing enough statement if you were a woman."
"You can't tie yourself down to this person." ~ HighRiseCat
"Yes! It would still be icky and questionable for him to say this if OP presented as a CIS female - but the fact that OP is a trans man makes it horrifying. WTF?!" ~ MarionberryOk2874
"NOR. I'm a cisgender, heterosexual married woman, so my experience with dating is very different from yours, but if my fiancé said 'She will be wearing a modest dress to get used to life as a married woman' or 'She needs to wear a low cut dress, so I can see what I'm buying' or anything along those lines, I would have called it off quickly."
"The dismissal of your identity is problematic as hell, but so is the little hint that married life will be radically different and not in a lovely, better way."
"Your wedding attire should reflect you, your identity, your values, comfort, and inspire confidence."
"You deserve that."
"Everyone deserves that." ~ ankareeda
"NOR, have a direct conversation with him about this, and don't get legally entangled with him."
"He shouldn't be thinking this is funny anyway; drunkness is not an excuse here, you're his partner of many years." ~ Fit_Square1322
"If these things that he says are coming out when he's drunk, that probably means he's thinking about these issues of your gender presentation, but he's not telling you what he's thinking."
"He sounds very emotionally immature and not ready for marriage." ~ GreenDirt2
"Bro, drunk words are sober thoughts with the volume turned up."
"Thought it was funny isn’t a defense."
"It’s a confession."
"He told his mom who he actually thinks you are."
"You survived your family cutting you off to live as you."
"You don’t owe anyone a second round of that grief because your fiancé can’t handle pronouns after 4 years." ~ BabydolllVibess
"Oh, my God??!!"
"Dude, that’s crazy. Please dump his as*."
"He clearly doesn’t see you as a man, and if you marry him, you’re resigning yourself to a life of being misgendered, and he’s probably gonna try and detransition you or feminize you (seeing as he wants you to wear a DRESS)."
"Also, I’m a trans dude, and I think it’s important that you hear a fellow trans man say this."
"You need to leave."
"You’re a man, and it’s insane that he’s trying to make you feel like you aren’t."
"The breakup will probably suck, but if you stay with him, it’ll be 100x worse." ~ mothmn_9
"NOR, I’ve learned drunk people usually speak more honestly than they mean to."
"I’d guess his mask slipped off; this is certainly grounds for leaving if he can’t accept who you are as you are." ~ Defiant_Tea_8722
"You’re not overreacting."
"I don’t think he actually respects you and who you are as a person."
"He called you feminine things all throughout your relationship."
"Maybe he never accepted you, and I’m sorry."
"I know that's a lot, but I know you will find someone who actually respects you and cares for you truly." ~ Due_Classic_4090
"Some people would tell you that people say things they don’t mean when they’re drunk. I think that’s BS."
"In my experience, it just removes their filter, and everything they say has an underlying truth to it."
"Knowing your gender identity and what you prefer, his words seem very disrespectful towards you and inconsiderate of your feelings, and being drunk isn’t a good enough excuse."
"If you have doubts, don’t just brush them off; trust your gut." ~ Kitchen_Process_8351
"NOR."
"I’m a cis woman, but my first serious relationship was with a trans man."
"Frankly, he was abusive, and I don’t even like or respect him, but still I would NEVER misgender him, because I sincerely understand that he’s a man."
"And I’m not an a**hole."
"Your partner is an a**hole." ~ tigalicious
"NOR. That’s a major breach of trust."
"Your relationship has gone on long enough for him to know that sh*t isn’t cool and is not a matter to joke over, even if he’s drunk (unless he has a drinking problem, in which case he needs to address that before marriage and work to make amends)." ~ Moist_Drippings
"NOR. It sounds like he might be counting on your gender identity to be 'just a phase' and that after the marriage, he’ll expect you to embody the 'wifely' role fully."
"He isn’t taking you seriously as a man, and it doesn’t sound like he’s actually on board for a homosexual marriage."
"Get out of there!" ~ Amwfgoddess
"NOR. My biggest concern is the potential for abuse - wifey duty?"
"Not even a conservative man says something like that."
"It's a pure trash statement."
"My first marriage was to an addict... 'DRUNKEN WORDS ARE SOBER THOUGHTS!'"
"😔 I'm so sorry. 🫂" ~ pashinates
OP returned with an UPDATE:
"I dont know if this is how you update, but anyway..."
"Mark and I are done."
"He came home from work an hour and a half ago, and I made him dinner so we could eat and talk."
"I told him what he said deeply hurt me, that I felt like he didn't respect me and saw me as a woman."
"He said that until recently he always saw me as a man, even though I'm the more feminine side (whatever that means), but since I've started taking testosterone, he realized he was less attracted to me and started to resent me."
"Which is f**king weird because my appearance didn't even change that much, and that he needed to take the 'lead' of the relationship again."
"By then, I had heard enough."
"I made it clear we were done and that this type of behavior was not okay and that it'll never be okay."
"That he had to go to therapy and work on his insecurities, but that I couldn't stay with him."
"At this point, he was apologizing and almost pleading with me to stay, but I really did not want to stay, so I took all my essentials and called my friend."
"I'm currently waiting for her to pick me up."
"I'm so confused about how someone I loved so much could betray me like that."
"I'll ask my friend and her husband if they can go back to take my other stuff later on because I really don't want to see him."
"I'm safe, my friend set me up in the guest bedroom, and I'm so grateful I have her."
"Mark and his family have been blowing up my phone."
"His mom, bless her heart, has only asked how I was and said that no matter what, she'll always see me as her son and that she's sorry about Mark's behavior, but his dad and brother have been sending me very insulting texts that included slurs."
"Mark threatened to 'go get me,' but luckily, he doesn't know where my friend lives."
"Honestly, I don't even recognize the man I was with."
"I'm thinking about moving to another city where I could live with my cousin until I'm back on my feet, but that's a whole other story."
"I'm planning to keep in contact with Mark's mom, and I'll be meeting up with her on Thursday."
"Thank you so much for opening my eyes and for making me realize Mark's behavior was not normal."
This is such a heartbreaking story.
So sorry you had to go through this, OP.
Reddit is loudly 1000% with you.
It's wonderful that you have love and support.
Stay strong.