Trying to help a down-on-their-luck loved one is admirable.
However, it isn't always easy.
Some people need more help than any one person can give.
And some people only use that help to find ways to take advantage.
This sort of behavior leads to disappointment for many.
Redditor Interesting_Star4842 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback, so naturally, he came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
He asked:
"AITA for kicking my 'mentally ill' brother out of my house when he was treating my wife like garbage?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"So I am 34 M[ale], I am married and own a home with my wife (26 F[emale]) in Los Angeles."
"My younger brother is 32 M, and he has never lived on his own."
"He lived with my dad until around 24, he then moved into his girlfriend's parents' house until he was like 28 maybe."
"They broke up, so my dad gifted him a condo that was above his business."
"He got a ton of free passes with my dad, he trashed the condo, didn't take care of anything, and my dad finally decided to retire and sell it because he couldn't take it anymore."
"My brother is also on his 3rd car, all bought by our grandfather."
"About 3-4 months ago was when he got kicked out."
"He came to our door begging, and I knew exactly how it was going to go."
"I told him he had one month to get his sh*t together, and he kept caving."
"My wife is an actress, and she only books about once every 6 months."
"She does auditions/classes daily for an hour or two; she mostly does 'housewife stuff.'"
"I told him right off the bat she was not doing any of it for him."
"I don't care if he's working 5 jobs; he is doing his own laundry, cleaning, and cooking."
"Of course, he left messes, threw his laundry on the floor, made the argument that he is working full time and she's not."
"I was like, this is HER home?"
"Then, when I told him he'd have to pay bills 2 months in, he got mad and said she does not pay bills... she is my wife and she takes care of our home."
"Anytime I told him to stop making extra work for her, he would say, 'she's a housewife, she's doing it for you, so I don't understand why she can't do it for me.'"
"He even asked why I get to have my laundry done, and meals cooked for me, but he can't and 'works just as much as me.'"
"It drove me crazy."
"He also would make noises while my wife was in auditions, which was frustrating for her."
"Not even accidental, like screaming while watching a sports game, 5 seconds after we told him she was going on Zoom. "
"This was one of my breaking points."
"She has dedicated her whole life to this, since she was like 9."
"When I started making good money, the first thing I was excited about was that she could focus on her dreams."
"She finally got a good agent, the auditions she gets are huge, and she is on cloud 9."
"As soon as he started doing this, I noticed she was getting stressed."
"One of the main issues is that he works nights."
"He was there all day while I was at work, and if she asked him to be quiet, he did not care."
"He said he didn't consider it a career, and he didn't think she'd make it, so he didn't feel the need to care. "
"As if her making it or not changed anything about it being her home and her dreams."
"If I were home and told him to shut up, he would."
"However, during the day, he did not listen to her and made her cry."
"That was the day I told him to get out; he's had enough free passes."
"It's time to grow up."
"My other brothers got mad, said I'm heartless because he's struggling mentally... but the guy has been struggling mentally since he was 16 and has never attempted therapy, meds, or anything."
"He just cries and relies on everyone to do everything."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP WAS the A**hole.
"YTA to your wife, he sounds like you knew exactly what was going to happen, you told your brother at the start he had a month, you laid down the rules and let him break them all."
"You let him stay longer, and it took him making her cry for you to finally kick him out finally." ~ lord_buff74
"You knew exactly how it was going to go, and it did go exactly how you thought."
"You owe it to your wife to get him gone now."
"Your other brothers are only mad because he'll come to them next." ~ Blue-Being22
"I get that people will give family way more chances than they should, but I also think that OP's brother burned through way more chances than any sane person would give them."
"It should have been one chance, and the second he stepped out of line, he was gone."
"It never should have gone so far that the wife was constantly stressed just trying to live her life."
"Too many f**king people use their mental health as an excuse to act like a-holes when there are plenty of people with the same diagnoses who aren't taking advantage of everything and everyone around them." ~ Neveronlyadream
"Exactly. There's a reason why other family members, including siblings mentioned, aren't lining up trying to get him to live at their place."
"The brothers who claim OP is heartless, I'd ask when the last time they offered their home as an option."
"He needs to keep this entitled little sh*t away from his house, apologize to his wife for allowing him to disrespect her in her home, and drop him off at his brother's house, who seems to have such a strong opinion on this." ~ Full_Subject5668
"Absolutely this."
"How dare OP let his entitled, crappy brother treat her so badly for so long?"
"It's unbelievable he thought he had the same household rights as her husband."
"If his other brothers are so concerned, then they can take him in."
"YTA for letting him treat her so badly and not kicking him out sooner." ~ lovinglifeatmyage
"Mostly YTA because you let him move in."
"Then, when it got worse, you waited months before kicking him out."
"She got an agent!"
"Good God, what an accomplishment!"
"He actively sabotaged your wife's auditions."
"Your wife suffered due to your procrastination with mishandling your brother." ~ lemon_icing
"YTA for forcing him on your wife in HER home."
"NTA for FINALLY getting him out." ~ Odd-End-1405
"You won't be the AH if you get that menace OUT of your wife's home and safe space this f***ing instant."
"I've seen too many instances of what I call ESGS (Envious Single Guy Syndrome) in which a brother, cousin, single father, in-law, or family friend focuses all his anger and frustration on the happy and charming wife, girlfriend, or even daughter of a closely related other man."
"The Envious Single Guy takes all of his personal frustration out on the other man's beloved female companion."
"He antagonizes her and tries to degrade her in every way possible."
"He tries to tear her down, undermine her credibility, and emotionally isolate her at every turn."
"Stop deluding yourself, because he means to do her harm."
"And in harming her, he's also harming you by making you look weak in that he fooled you so you didn't protect her."
"I'd go as far as to say you should put her up in an Airbnb until you get that guy out and the locks changed, because the instant that you set a timer on when he loses access to her, he'll speed up his timeline as to when he can attack her."
"Protect the woman you love."
"Don't trust this guy for even one second." ~ MizWhatsit
"YTA for enabling his behavior for so long."
"You consistently chose him over your wife!"
"You owe her an apology."
"As for anyone saying kicking him out is wrong, they can house him and put up with his crap." ~ bmw5986
"Honestly, YTA for having him move in at all and still being more concerned about how you look to other people than how you've harmed your wife these past few months." ~ amjay8
"Not the a**hole for kicking out your brother, however, letting him treat your wife the way she did for long periods of time was the asshole move."
"Saying 'housewife stuff' to refer to your wife out of the kindness of her heart, taking care of your home, is absolute bullsh*t."
"I hate that you refer to it as that, and the fact that your brother has no respect for women at all."
"You're both kind of a**holes, and something about this marriage feels off, and I am uncomfortable for the wife." ~ nailsbyoggeorge
"YTA for torturing your wife for so long, and she deserves a sincere apology." ~ Inevitable_Entry6518
"YTA. You know what your brother is and how he is, and you let him in with no regards towards your wife."
"You gave him a time frame and then trashed it."
"You were being your dad."
"Mentally ill is in quotes, is he, or just some spoiled kid who always got his way?" ~ Charming-Industry-86
"Sorry, but YTA because you let him move in, fully knowing he was a semi-adult, and he doesn't behave as he should."
"I hope he's gone now and your wife is okay."
"Your family needs to stop enabling him; that's why he hasn't had to deal with life."
"Stop bailing him out." ~ CuriousMindedAA
This is a serious situation, OP.
Understandably, you would want to help your brother.
But you can't do it at your or your wife's expense.
You probably should've said no the second he showed up.
Stay strong.
Let your brothers worry about it now.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp