Some loved ones need more serious help than family can handle.
Bringing other people's trauma into one's home can be dangerous for everyone involved.
These types of situations tend to lead to a lot of stress and grief.
So is there a healthy way through for everyone?
Redditor AITA_Throwaway_66666 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback, so naturally he came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
He asked:
"AITA for refusing to let my mentally ill hoarder in-laws stay at my house indefinitely?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My I[n]-L[aws] are in their 60's."
"Hoarders. Unhealthy people. Not elderly."
"Saying: 'Well, this is what happens when you get to be our age.'"
"No, it doesn't."
"Eat healthy and take care of yourself."
"They don't cook, or clean, their house is falling apart from neglect, neglect their own hygiene, they reek of urine, and have two cats who urinate and defecate all over the house."
"Their doctors have passively made comments about the smell."
"They don't ask for help or consider nursing homes."
"They seem to be there mentally but are just gross."
"Incident 1..."
"Winter of 2023, my F[ather]-I[n]-L[aw] (+350 lbs) fell, and he and my M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] could not get him back up. "
"They called the f[ire] d[epartment]."
"FD saw the condition of the house, called the health department, and said they had 14 days or so to fix some of the issues around the house before they would be forced to leave."
"The humane society came and took their two cats away."
"I also know they just feed their cats leftovers from the food they get delivered."
"In my opinion, they should not have the poor things."
"There is mold, cat defecation, rot, and I would bet human excitement all around the house."
"My wife said there were trash bags filled to the brim everywhere."
"They got the house taken care of just enough to meet code and fell right back into it, and now it's worse."
"FIL recently beat cancer, but has some wounds/infections on his legs, and they keep coming back."
"I am not sure about the cause of the infections, but I am certain their hygiene and living environment are causing them to remain."
"Incident 2 (Today), & AITA..."
"Today, my FIL fell again, a repeat of 2023."
"FD Called. Health department."
"The Humane Society took the two cats away, again."
"They have done nothing to improve the house."
"I heard my MIL say 'it's only gotten worse' over the phone when talking to my wife earlier tonight."
"The health department has marked it with 'red tape' or a 'red flag' or something where the house is not permitted for entry at this time, I think is what I heard."
"FIL's leg infections had maggots growing on them."
"Yes, maggots."
"He was delirious from the fall and is being admitted to the hospital for a few days."
"Sounds like a minor kidney injury or something."
"MIL has been discharged."
"She does not own a cell phone, and all of her belongings are back at the house which I am not sure they can get in."
"My wife is on her way to get my MIL and bring her back to our house."
"I said no."
"My wife and I both work from home."
"We do have the room."
"My wife said she will sleep in the guest bedroom, which doubles as my wife's office."
"I feel like in a 14-year husband and wife relationship in a house that we own together, my feelings and opinions should be valid, and we should come to an agreement. "
"My in-laws knew in 2023 they had to do something, and they didn't, and I do not want to be a shelter for that kind of behavior."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA for telling my wife 'No, your MIL can't stay here'?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA, but I would have been more explicit."
"They can live her,e or I can live here."
"Because I would have to leave a partner who forced their hoarder parents, particularly ones this bad, on me." ~ saintandvillian
"MAGGOTS. The dude had maggots in his leg."
"This is def-con 1 level of f**k that. NTA." ~ junkfile19
"This. I have helped a hoarder who had to move."
"It was insanely stressful on everyone involved, but we got them pared down to a reasonable amount of possessions for their new space."
"Two days in they'd ordered new stuff, picked up things from goodwill that they 'needed', and bargained with people who'd taken their 'good stuff' off their hands to get it back."
"Hoarders CAN get better, but it's hard, and they really aren't going to do it in the middle of a series stressor like this." ~ Key-Contribution8550
"Agreed. My ILs are like this."
"They don't have toxic waste, but they just seem to accumulate stuff."
"Their former house was full to the ceiling with stuff one or the other has bought."
"They have multiple storage facilities packed with stuff, and now that my FIL has passed and my MIL moved into a new house, that place is slowly filling with stuff too."
"When she goes, it's going to be an absolute nightmare to get rid of all of that junk." ~ clutzycook
"OP, I would just have a boundary."
"If they have 14 days to clean the house, they can stay with you for 14 days while they get the house under control."
"We were in a nearly identical situation, and we told them they could stay for X number of days, and then they HAD to be out."
"On that day, we made sure they packed their stuff and left."
"If you're worried they'll refuse to leave, that's a different thing, but you can have a timeline too."
"That's perfectly okay."
"It doesn't have to be black or white." ~ crystallz2000
"NTA. DO NOT LET THEM INTO YOUR HOUSE!!!"
"They will not leave."
"They will build a new hoard in your home starting the first day."
"Contact Adult Protective Services to get them help finding somewhere to live."
"Given their history, they might already have a caseworker at A[dult] P[rotective] S[ervices]."
"It will be very hard to get your wife to understand because hoarding has been so normalized for her."
"She's probably taken a lot of crap from her parents with even the gentlest suggestion that they clean up."
"Hoarders value their stuff more than people, no matter how stained and ruined it is."
"You say that you have the space, but they'd be occupying what is now a home office."
"Anything that is in the room that the inlaws occupy risks being destroyed."
"It is likely that you are vastly underestimating the amount of work they will cause and the fights that will result from their occupancy."
"The only way to avoid these problems is to not allow them to live in your home, not even overnight." ~ No_Philosopher_1870
"I think you perfectly hit every nail on the head with this excellent advice."
"Everything you said about the in-laws starting a new hoard is absolutely correct."
"My former MIL was a major hoarder, and she carried that behavior with her everywhere, even if it was just a week visiting us."
"She stole everything we didn't nail down, so every time she was leaving to go back home after one of our little visits, I would distract her while my husband searched her bags, stealing our stuff back."
"She didn't bring maggots to the party, so I guess that was a bonus for us."
"These in-laws will never leave OP's house, and he'll end up not even being able to get into his house after a few weeks due to their hoard taking shape." ~ cometshoney
"NTA. These people need a higher level of care than you are able to provide (or should have to provide)."
"I don't know where you live, but if it is the US, call your state D[epartment] of S[ocial] and H[ealth] S[ervices] office and speak to someone in Adult Protective Services."
"This couple sounds like they are gravely disabled."
"You do not live in a situation like that without having mental illness."
"They need to be in residential care, at least initially."
"Perhaps they would be able to return home with supportive services after some time."
"I am amazed that the fire department and hospital staff have not initiated something with social services." ~ enchylatta
"NTA. Is your wife also planning to do wound care, personal care, cook, and clean for two extra people?"
"Where does she plan on working when FIL is released from the hospital?"
"Where will he stay?"
"Look, it's very obvious these two can't look after themselves."
"Call Adult Protective Services and look into care home options." ~ WhyAmIStillHere86
"NTA. Any visitors/guests must be mutually agreed upon in advance."
"My estranged parents aren't allowed on our property, and neither is Monster-in-Law."
"My husband and I have agreed on this for years."
"Your wife needs to put the marriage first." ~ AttemptNo5042
"This. When my mom blew up at my sister and kicked her out, I told her that she could stay at my house for a few days, no more than a week, but no longer because I was not about to torpedo my marriage over her."
"She went back home that same night."
"My husband was okay with a week, but no longer." ~ Waterbaby8182
"NTA, but you need to help your wife come up with another solution."
"These are her parents, and she wants to help them - that isn't going away."
"So whether it is getting them into low-income housing based on their income or putting them up in a hotel or finding an assisted living place for them to stay - you need to help her (wife) figure this out."
"Right now she's probably panicking because mom has no place to and it's logical that a daughter would take in her mom." ~ SoSleepySue
"NTA. These are people you don't want in your house under any circumstances!"
"Their difficulties are self-inflicted and only require an absolute minimum of care and work to prevent."
"They're not going through a minor setback."
"If they will do all this to a place they own, just imagine what they'll do to a place that means nothing to them."
"You will either end up as servants to them, or you'll find your own place being condemned by the health department." ~ extinct_diplodocus
"NTA, but also try to understand where your wife is coming from."
"I don't think she should be able to move her mother into your shared house without you also agreeing."
"But take a moment to put yourself in her shoes and consider the other options."
"No one wants to watch their mentally ill parents become homeless, no matter how much of a struggle it is to have them around."
"Maybe if you let her really talk things out with you with zero judgment, just two partners trying to come to a solution, she would feel less like she doesn't have any options."
"I don't know your wife, but I'm willing to gamble and say having her mom move in isn't her ideal first choice either."
"Maybe you two can come up with a plan to get them in a home or somewhere they will really get the help they need."
"Whatever ends up happening, I don't think you or your wife are necessarily in the wrong, and I hope you two can keep being a team in the face of this situation." ~ treehuggerfroglover
"You need to get off Reddit and talk to a lawyer in your jurisdiction ASAP."
"Depending on the laws of your area, you might need to do something before she arrives."
"Lawyer ASAP. Today. NTA." ~ SeaworthinessDue8650
"NTA. Show your wife all of the episodes of Hoarders that involve the hoarding family members moving into family homes... it's always a terrible situation." ~ Pandas-Brat
"NTA. What is her plan when FIL gets out of the hospital?"
"How will she keep her from hoarding in your home?"
"What about the cats?"
"Their house may be worth more as a vacant lot, but still may provide some support to live on their own." ~ gastropod43
"NTA. Put her up in Motel 6 for a week and call adult social services."
"Your MIL probably needs to be conserved and institutionalized."
"Obviously, your MIL will never leave once she's spent the night in your house."
"The destruction of your house will begin the moment she gets into bed, and within months, you'll have little or nothing that's worth having." ~ AgainandBack
"These people need professional help."
"Do not let them in your home because they will create chaos."
"I have extremely toxic parents-in-law who have behaved horrendously to their own child, my husband, thus I blocked them completely out of my life!"
"Do the same. Also NTA." ~ The_Naxian_
"NTA. They can look for a senior facility and live there."
"From what you've described, it would be a nightmare for you."
"They didn't do what was needed."
"Their mental state is something that requires professional intervention, something you and your wife aren't able to provide."
'Setting the boundary will make them look elsewhere."
"If you don't your home will become cat pee and maggot central." ~ Deep_Advertising_171
"NTA, but it isn't your wife's MIL."
"It is your MIL and your wife's mom."
"If you let her stay, it is leaving a thought that he can come to stay too."
"Neither need to be allowed to stay."
"This is a two-yes, one-no situation, and you have made your choice." ~ NotAllStarsTwinkle
Reddit understands your stance, OP.
And people are behind you.
This is a disastrous situation caused by your in-laws.
You have every right not to allow this behavior to continue in your home.
It may be a good idea to seek counseling for you and your wife on how to navigate this messy situation.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp