People leave religion for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes that reason includes trauma.
A woman—who suffered childhood trauma due to a strict religious background—turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Cheeseslicer93 asked:
"AITA for refusing to go to my husband's church even once?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I (29, female) grew up in an incredibly radically over the top Christian household."
"We went to church twice a week always. When I got Scarlet Fever as a kid my grandpa refused to let me get medical treatment for days while he tried to cure me by screaming at me at the top of his lungs to remove the devil from me."
"I was so terrified of going to Hell, that if I even forgot to say 'thank you' I'd break down crying. When I was 13, my dad (who had full custody) moved us to another country to get away from our religious family."
"From then on we were allowed to remain Christian if we wanted, but none of us chose to. We respected religions, but never practiced or attended again."
"My husband's (28M) family is very Christian and attends church every Sunday. He goes sometimes, always invites me, but never pressured me to go for years."
"His family is starting to kick back and insist I attend as well, despite knowing why I don't want to. They are becoming a little pushy, saying that I have to at least go once and TRY it and that I'd have a good time."
"I still refuse. I'm happy they have their religion but I'm done with it for myself. My husband thinks I'm being stubborn and irrational."
"I think I respect their religion so why can't my decision also be respected?"
"AITA?"
The OP later added:
"I would like to make a quick edit to say that I love my in-laws as people and I love seeing them. This also isn't a deal breaker between me & my husband, we do not want kids, so it wouldn't affect them."
"I just don't appreciate the peer pressure every single week, and it does make me feel like I'm neglecting a 'duty' when they sometimes gang up about it."
The OP summed up their situation.
"My husband's family wants me to attend church with them, even just once. I refuse to due to religious trauma as a kid."
"They weren't pushy for years until now and now they are seeming to get a little upset that I won't go, even once, to try it out."
"I understand that trying it once won't kill me and may make them happy, but I don't think it's necessary for me to pretend to like things or that my past doesn't matter to make them happy."
"Then again maybe I'm being an a**hole about it. That's why I posted."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"Your husband married you knowing you have religious trauma and that you do not practice any religion. He is pulling a bait and switch here."
"This kind of harassment from religious people has never one time in history actually made someone want to attend their church. Start shutting down these discussions.
"'You know how I feel about this. You knew about it before we were married. This discussion is closed'. NTA." ~ fiestafan73
"NTA. Offer them a deal: One visit to THEIR church with them for every visit to a church of your choice the agree to make (same duration)—and THEY have to start." ~ k23_k23
"First visit - a mosque, second visit - a Temple, third visit Russian Orthodox Catholic, fourth visit - evangelical faith healing snake handler, fifth visit - a satanic church, sixth visit - just a hangout with an zealous pastafarian, we'll give them a break." ~ dalealace
"NTA - forced religion is not religion, it is a cult. Ask your husband why it is now so important that you go to church with his family." ~ toosheeptheorist
"My mom forced me to go to church and the after church activities for kids. My mom and sibs were very much into it, but I wasn't. My mom gave me an ultimatum once I go to church or stay at home with the unsafe ex-godfather."
"I chose church, but it ABSOLUTELY BORED THE EFF OUTTA ME. It felt like to me that Christianity is all about 'you believe in our version of God and our version of Hell and if you don't believe in our version of God you are going to said Hell'." ~ ninjareader89
"NTA—it's irrational to force your religion upon others. I'd be careful OP, religion is often forced upon others as a means of control."
"Why else is it so important to them that you concede on your principles?"
"Also, it'd probably be a good idea for you to have a chat with your husband about why he believes you should participate in religion." ~ els_bw
"Your husband and his parents are being very disrespectful to you."
"You made your decision for more than very good reasons of why you don't want to ever go. And now they're harassing you about it, your husband being implicit with their harassment to you. This is not OK."
"Honestly - one more conversation saying, 'I will never go to any church. If you don't stop asking, I will no longer involve myself in any events with any of you since you can't find it in your "Christian" souls to stop harassing me or respecting my decision'."
"Then quote Romans 8:28: 'All things—even our own choices—are used by God to accomplish his purposes in and through us'. Drop mic and walk away."
"Which is your semi nice way to tell them to eff off. NTA." ~ WhatTheActualFck1
"NTA. Stand firm. Shut them down every time they start in with that crap. Walk away. Physically leave if you have to. You are not required to be nice to people who refuse to respect your trauma." ~ themistycrystal
"NTA. Religion is a man made invention used to control people. Having faith in a higher power isn't exclusive to religion."
"They're trying to justify their beliefs to themselves by recruiting more people into their cult. Respect goes both ways and religious people will never respect you because they think they're better than you, which could never be further from the truth." ~ AnneHawthorne
"Religious abuse is a real thing. You have had trauma surrounding that. They need to back off and shut up until you say you are ready—which may be never." ~ Dependent-Union4802
"A fellow religious-trauma survivor here."
"OP, you have a husband problem. It's his job as your husband to not only believe your trauma and respect how you have chosen to deal with it, but also to keep his own family off your back about religion. And he's majorly failing at all of that."
"I don't think he actually respects you or what you've been through. Hell, none of them do, but he's the one who is supposed to have your back here, and instead, he's actively part of the problem."
"I grew up in a church that was on the leading edge of the Quiver-full Christian Cult (like the Duggars) movement. These people arranged marriages for their multiple children between the families in the church."
"Thankfully, the church dissolved before I was old enough to be married off. I was around 11. My mom finally separated from my father when I was age 13, divorced by age 15."
"But I have 7 siblings who are some of the most messed up, dysfunctional, toxic people I've ever had the displeasure of knowing. There's tons more, but let's just say that I'm glad I don't talk to them anymore."
"I've been with my fiancé for 13 years now. He's a non-practicing Christian and I'm a practicing Pagan. I know. We get raised eyebrows a lot."
"My point here is, my fiancé has never once pressured me to step foot in a church. And he would never, even if he was a practicing Christian. We respect that we each have different things we believe in, and we don't argue about it or make it a point of contention."
"When I moved in, he helped me cleanse the house and sprinkle salt for protection. He doesn't believe in what I believe, but he knows that I believe in it, and that makes it important to him."
"I've held his hand when he has prayed for his grandma before she passed away. I bow my head at family gatherings when they pray out of respect for their tradition, but none of them have ever asked or demanded that I also pray with them."
"They wouldn't dare because they know my fiancé would rip them a new one. Or he'd just give me a specific look, and I'd know that I have his backup if I wanted to either pray to Odin/Freya/Thor in front of them all or rip them a new one myself."
"This is what your husband should be doing for you. Stop giving him any leeway. He either has your back, or he can find himself single again."
"And for the love of the universe, DO NOT move your boundaries to accommodate their wants. That's not conducive to you protecting your right to remain religion-free."
"Get some cleats, hun, before you put that foot down. It will give you better traction, a more stable foothold, and you can use them to stomp on the toes of anyone who pushes you too much."
"NTA OP. But don't give even a millimeter here. They will push until they take a mile unless you stand your ground. And your husband better get on board, or he will find himself on the other side of the line." ~ One-Championship-965
The OP provided an update.
"I appreciate the kind replies."
"I'm going to set my foot down harder, but kindly, and tell them that I might host an after church brunch every other week for them where they are welcome to discuss religion, but I will not be attending church in any fashion."
The OP may not have the full support of their husband, but people online had their back.
Having religion forced on a person rarely results in true devotion or conversion.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp