How and when someone comes out is a very personal choice.
No matter what age, it all depends on a person's emotional readiness.
There is no perfect way to do it.
And this can be a difficult pill for parents to swallow.
A parental instinct is often to engage and discuss.
But a kid may not be ready.
So what does a parent do?
Case in point...
Redditor -Ineedhelp-- wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my Husband our son was gay?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (32 F[emale]) caught my son (15 M[ale] ) cuddling with his friend (15 M) while they were sleeping in their room."
"I decided not to wake them up, and I discussed it with my husband (34 M), and the possibility that our son might be gay came up."
"While I initially agreed with my husband's suggestion to approach our son when his friend left, I later decided that we should just wait until our son was comfortable sharing this with us."
"My husband argued, saying what if he never tells us that he's gay?"
"I told my husband that if he doesn't tell us that he's gay, then he's probably not."
"I told him that we should just let our son know that we'll love him regardless and leave it at that."
"However, my husband went against our agreement and questioned our son about his sexual orientation while I was driving my son's friend home."
"When I returned home, I discovered my son in TEARS, yelling and accusing me of outing him."
"I was confused and told my son that I didn't know what he was talking about."
"My son told me while he was crying that his father revealed what I saw and basically coerced him into coming out before he was ready."
"My son asked me why I would tell his father and why I would enter his room without his permission."
"I started crying and told my son that I was sorry and that I loved him and accepted him no matter what."
"My son remained distant and now is refusing to speak to me and his father."
"When I confronted my husband, I told him that I was angry that he threw me under the bus."
"He claimed he didn't mean any harm, only shared what I mentioned to our son, hoping it'll make him comfortable about coming out to us."
"Despite his pleas for forgiveness, I can't help but feel anger towards him, knowing my son is now feeling hatred for me for something that I actively tried to prevent."
"My husband argues that blaming him for our son's emotions is unfair, and told me our son is only going through an emotional phase that will pass."
"Despite him begging for my son and my forgiveness, telling us that he meant no harm, I'm torn between forgiving him because I blame him for causing our son to be angry with me."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA for telling my Husband our son was gay?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA - Yeah, your husband screwed the pooch big time."
"Your suggestion to wait until your son was comfortable with coming out on his own in his own way was, of course, correct."
"Your husband, despite his pleas of innocence, betrayed your trust and your son's privacy."
"He has created a terrible rift in the family, and it is he who has to fix it between you and your son."
'He created the mess, and he needs to clean it up."
"You need to go to your husband with this, and if he doesn't straighten it out right now, he will be spending a lot of cold nights this winter." ~ Mustng1966
"This OP! NTA."
"Your husband blamed you as soon as your son started to get defensive, fully knowing that what he was doing was completely against what you discussed, and turns out you were 100% correct in foreseeing your son's reaction."
"I agree your husband should fix it."
"But I'd also maybe have a conversation with your son 1-1 and explain what happened from your point of view, reiterating it was never your intention to force him to come out and you wanted to let him do it on his own terms."
"You love him always and the subject doesn't need to be brought up again until he is ready to do so, and you'll respect his privacy and always knock from now on." ~ puchungu
"And breaking a freshly-made promise."
"And deciding it was ok to drag his own son out of the closet."
"He betrayed two people he's supposed to love and protect."
"I'd never trust him again."
"Mom is NTA."
"Dad has forever broken their trust because he thought he knew better about a very nebulous issue that was not his own issue to make decisions about." ~ FleeshaLoo
"I agree: one of my sons came out to his dad."
"My husband told me in secret because he wasn't sure if his reaction was good."
"I reassured my husband (who did right even if he was surprised to be the first to know as I am bi), but I didn't mention it to my son."
"He took 4 months to come out to me, and I never told him I already knew as I don't want to harm his relationship with his dad."
"And we're there for our son when he needs to, he knows he can come out to the rest of the family in his own time."
"So OP, NTA, but your husband failed you in co-parenting and failed your son by forcing him to talk while he wasn't ready." ~ Significant-Ad9908
"This, but you should apologize to your son for bringing it up to his father either way."
"Explain that you expected a more mature reaction from your husband, that you explained it a certain way so that he wouldn't make assumptions, yet he chose to anyways."
"You were well-meaning in wanting your husband to simply make it clear that if your son is gay, both of his parents are accepting, and he can be open about it."
"Your husband prioritized himself/his own nosiness about your son's personal business and tried to force your son to come out before he was ready, as you predicted, and then deflected the blame onto you when he realized that he should have taken your suggested approach."
"It's a tricky situation but do try to show understanding for your son's feelings at this time, he's only 15 and is experiencing a severe violation of his private life!"
"NTA, but had a lapse in judgment in trusting your husband."
"Your son is reasonably upset about this since your husband did not respond with the same maturity that you did and instead turned it into an interrogation."
"It was probably not a good idea to provide the possible evidence (him cuddling with another boy), but it's your husband who made the assumption, not you, and your husband needs to be held accountable."
"Lesson for other parents: any of your kids could be gay without you knowing; just assume that the possibility is always there whether you have 'proof' or not and create a welcoming space for them."
"Not being told is not a personal slight against you!"
"OP's husband definitely could've taken the last half of this advice." ~ Mundane_Reference564
"I vehemently disagree with all the Y-T-As and E-S-Hs. To me, this is a NTA."
"OP knocked. OP was doing something she normally does, which was her son's laundry."
"OP went to her husband, who she thought was a rational human being, not to out their son but to talk about the very real possibility that their son MAY be gay. THIS IS NOT OUTING."
"What was outing was what OP's husband did."
"The reality is, parents talk to each other about everything regarding their kids."
"OP has not at any point in this post indicated that she believed her husband was an unsafe person for their kid, so it's not unbelievable that she would confide in her husband information regarding their kid."
"OP expected her husband to react rationally at the possibility their son may be gay. He didn't."
"Instead, he made this a big deal and forced their son out of the closet."
"OP's husband is the one who outed their son."
"If you tell a trusted family member that the passcode to your house is 1234 for emergencies and you ask them to keep that a secret, but that person tells someone else who shouldn't know that information, most people wouldn't blame you."
"You trusted your family member to have your best interests in mind."
"While it doesn't 100% translate, it's the same principle."
"OP reasonably thought she could trust her husband and act in a way that had the family's best interests in mind, and he decided to blow it all up to satisfy his own curiosity."
"It sounds to me like OP wanted to prepare her husband for what may be to come and just reaffirm that they will react with love and compassion."
"And I will die on this hill."
"OP DID NOT OUT HER SON!!" ~ imisspeaches
"I agree with you 100%. OP is NTA."
"My husband and I had this same conversation a few years ago about our oldest son because of a friendship he had."
"We agreed to not say anything to him because we did not want to out him, invade his privacy, or pressure him."
"If my husband did what OP's husband did, I would be furious."
"He absolutely handled it wrong and needs to try to fix it with his wife and son." ~ Gullible-Law
"Your husband stinks." ~ Loud_Fox_6092
OP came back to chat...
"I entered my son's room because I was doing laundry and planning on washing my son's clothes."
"I did knock to see if they were awake and waited for a response, and when I got no response, I entered."
"I only usually do this when I plan on washing clothes, as I like to do it early in the morning."
"I've been doing this since my son was 12, and he told me he didn't mind it because he would wake up with clean clothes."
"When I saw my son and his friend cuddling, I immediately walked out of his room and shut the door."
"I wasn't thinking straight and should have waited for his friend to leave."
"Sorry for not mentioning this before."
Well, OP, Reddit is with you.
You weren't being malicious.
You had your son's best interests at heart.
Things went a bit awry.
Sounds like you love your son a lot.
There are plenty of resources for the whole family to help process this if you need support.
Thanks for being such a caring mom.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp