Infidelity in a relationship rarely ends well. When children are involved, it gets particularly contentious.
Infidelity, to me, is when one or both partners conceal romantic or sexual relationships with people other than their current partner(s)—consentual polyamory is a valid option to monogamy.
Polyamory is not infidelity, because all parties are open, honest and have consented to the relationship dynamic.
Quick side note on consentual versus consensual: the latter is the more recognized and older term, while the former was initially used only in legal writing. However consentual—giving full agreement—has become more popular than consensual—negotiated compromise or a consensus—when referring to relationships.
You negotiate and compromise on dinner plans, not on your bodily autonomy. You're indirectly having sex with whoever your partner is having sex with, so it should be a yes or a no.
People who try to claim their cheating is really polyamory are just adding more lies to avoid responsibility for their prior dishonesty.
Monogamy isn't for everyone, but neither is polyamory.
If you're unhappy or unfulfilled or just want to have sex with a bunch of different people, don't get married to someone who wants strict monogamy, because you aren't compatible. If you are married, ask for your partner's consent to have sex or romantic relationships with other people and/or get a divorce—before you start those new relationships.
But some people...
A 16-year-old dealing with fallout from her father's infidelity turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Defiant-Gap208 asked:
"AITA for making things uncomfortable during my dad's engagement dinner?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My dad is a serial cheater. He had at least 3 affair partners that we know of. But there are two others we think might have existed."
"He cheated on my mom a lot during their marriage. It came to light after she was diagnosed with brain cancer 5 years ago."
"Mom found out when she was already terminal."
"My dad's answer to this was to run away to his at the time affair partner's house, leaving me (now 16, female—only 11 at the time) and my sister (15, female—only 10) to fend for ourselves and take care of our dying mom."
"He then tried to get his way back in for my mom's last few weeks and she somewhat gave in for our sakes, because she was worried we'd hate him if she didn't. But then when the end came, he was again off with his affair partner."
"I can promise you, my mom would not have wanted their relationship to continue if she knew he'd abandon us as she was literally dying and leave us to watch it happen all alone as two terrified 11 and 10-year-old children."
"When mom was gone, we refused to live with dad and his affair partner. We told dad we were not going to let him act like nothing bad happened and there was no way we wanted his affair partner to be our new mom."
"We ran away from home to get our way and CPS got involved and the court decided we should live with our maternal grandparents. They saw it as an unsafe environment that they knew we would constantly run away from."
"We made it clear we wouldn't stay with him and her and would keep running if we had to. We had the fact he abandoned us twice including when he knew mom was dying going for us too."
"But our dad was given visitation rights by the courts, so we have to see him one Saturday and one Sunday a month."
"But not overnight."
"Dad and his last affair partner were on and off for a few years. We found out one of her kids was actually his and that kid is 6 now."
"She has an 8-year-old as well from the guy she was married to at the time she had her 6-year-old with our dad. So there's messy stuff on her side too."
"She's the type of woman who also cheats on her own husband and has another man's child while they're still married and doesn't say anything to him until the chance for them—her and our dad—to be together—mom dying—comes."
"Her ex-husband knows the 6-year-old isn't his, but he didn't always know. He shares custody of just the 8-year-old now, but not the 6-year-old. That was a fight between them for a while."
"We don't see or interact with her or her kids ever."
"Dad and his affair partner are now engaged and they wanted an engagement party with family and friends and dad insisted we had to be part of that. It happened on Saturday."
"Dad made us use the engagement dinner as our visitation with him, but we tried to fight against it. So we went, but we weren't happy."
"During the dinner, dad and his affair partner were talking about how excited they were to bring the family together. His affair partner was saying she was so excited to officially be our parent and to have us become closer because of it."
"Their immediate families know the score, but not the extended family. Their friends mostly knew, I think."
"They were saying how it was the most wonderful time and stuff. Then my sister and I started saying it wasn't for us."
"Then we sarcastically said how we couldn't wait to be a family with dad's affair partner that he was seeing all throughout our mom's cancer. Who he chose to be with when his wife was dying."
"Leaving his daughters all alone with their dying mom because he didn't even call our grandparents to tell them it was her final few hours before taking off to be with his affair partner. We also brought up how he had fathered the 6-year-old during his marriage to mom."
"This led to a lot of questions, surprise and anger—the latter of which was directed at us."
People who didn't know were asking a lot of questions and some fights broke out between members of the different families.
"My dad and his affair partner were furious we made the engagement dinner uncomfortable and asked us why we'd do that. My sister said we weren't going to pretend we were happy for them or us."
"I said they forced us to be there and we were clear we didn't want to be. They said we behaved like spiteful children."
"My dad expected we would be over it enough by now to become part of his new family. I think he thought we'd be so desperate to have our last remaining parent that everything would go back to relative normal."
"Meaning we would live with him and engage with his affair partner and her/their kids."
"And that we wouldn't ever bring up the affairs or our mom dying while he left us to face it alone—since he didn't even call our mom's parents to tell them we were all alone as he was taking off.
"He really expected us to love him after that and to fall in love with all of them."
"I really don't want to be forced to attend their wedding—they schedule it on our mandatory visitation day—or take part in anything else like this. I hate seeing him already, but *ugh* seeing her and all the play pretend stuff annoyed me."
"The judge insists that the visitation continues because we already see him so little and he doesn't pose a physical threat—no history of physical abuse. Our grandparents tried to get the visitation removed a few months ago."
"We spoke to the judge and everything. The best we can maybe get is to get it cut back to once a month, but that's such a little difference that it feels like it would be worth it just sucking it up for another couple of years."
"There's no guarantee it would get cut back and it could cost our grandparents more money—legal fees—for no reason. I've only got about two years and my sister three years left to be forced to see him."
"AITA?"
The OP summed up their situation.
"My sister and I made our dad's engagement dinner uncomfortable by bringing up some truths they would prefer not to have on blast to everyone."
"This might be sh*tty because, while we were forced to be there and don't approve, we could have stayed quiet the whole time and shown how unhappy we were with that instead of putting them on blast."
"That is spiteful, I guess, so I might be the a**hole for my part in it."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA. 'They said we behaved like spiteful children...'. You ARE children. You have very good reasons to be spiteful. What else did they expect?" ~ Excellent-Count4009
"As for you being an a-hole... naaaahhh, NTA. He ventured into literal f*ck around, find out (FAFO) territory, and it bit him. People should be careful what they ask for." ~ Tailflap747
"As the saying goes, 'If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth'. Your dad has some nerve asking everyone to lie and play happy family after the absolutely vile and disgusting sh*t he pulled." ~ DrMcFacekick
"Your dad is a selfish, stupid man living in a fantasy world, his affair partner isn't far behind. I hope you both felt better after speaking your mind. NTA." ~ lovinglifeatmyage
"If I were OP or her sister, I would have been tempted to add to the affair partner 'You better hope that you never become sick or disabled someday. Because your husband will be out the door and onto his next side-piece faster than you can blink'. NTA." ~ Longjumping_Hat_2672
"NTA at all. He freaking deserved it! He knew y'all were uncomfortable with the relationship, and did everything he could to shove it in your face."
"He might make you be at the wedding if it's during visitation time, but he can't force you to be a part of it. I would let him know that if you're expected to be there, it will be you attending in funeral attire and sitting silently in a corner—black veil and everything." ~ Reddit
"NTA—my mid-50's self would have done the same thing, maybe stood up for a full toast/roast moment. If that makes me a spiteful child, I'll wear that label like a badge of honour."
"Deeply sorry about your Mom. It's hard enough to lose a parent when you're so young, but to have such an unwashed pinecone as your other parent is truly miserable."
"Don't take your foot off the gas. Let him know you'll do the same any time he makes you visit to perform their happy family performances. If he insists on you being at the wedding, let him know you'll have a full floor show planned." ~ whatsmypassword73
Luckily, the OP is only looking at a few more years of forced contact with their father. Once they're 18, they can tell dear old dad "bye-bye-bye."
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp