Redditor pregnantthw is expecting her first baby with her husband, and a recent conversation about maternity/paternity leave turned into an argument.
The fight left the Original Poster (OP) reeling and questioning her entire relationship.
Ultimately the OP went to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) for some clarity.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my husband if he wants someone to stay home with our baby, he can do it?"
She went on to explain.
"For context, I'm currently 29 weeks pregnant. My husband [29-year-old Male] and I [30-year-old Female] met in college, and have been together for 8 years, married for 2."
"Our relationship has always been solid, and progressive."
"My husband has never been much of a traditionalist despite growing up in a very stereotypical family (had 2 siblings and a stay at home mom, his dad worked)."
"Up until recently, we've agreed on nearly everything (save for small things) in our marriage and how to raise kids."
"However, 2 days ago, we were talking about baby stuff, and my husband started mentioning that he thought maybe one of us she stay home with the baby for awhile…"
"…and not go back to work after our maternity/paternity leave is over. We both work in tech, and make good money and have great benefits."
"I get 20 weeks of leave after the baby is born, he gets 12."
"We were trying to decide if we should stagger our leave so someone could be home with the baby until 6 months, the age where most places near us will start daycare."
"My husband said that he read that it's better for the baby to have a parent home for the first year."
"So I asked him (thinking nothing of it) if that's really something he'd consider, since he might have to quit his job."
"He asked why he would have to quit, since I should "obviously" be the one to stay home with the baby. I asked him if he was serious and he said Yes, the mom should be the one to stay home."
"I said how are we going to make that work on just his income? For context, I make about three times what my husband does."
"It's never been an issue and never mattered to me. I just finished my masters earlier than he did (we both have them) and went into a more specialized field."
"We both make good money, but it's my job primarily that pays for the lifestyle we have. So I asked him what we were going to do for a year on 1/4 the income with a new baby."
"He got a little upset and said I 'shouldn't even bring that up' and that he makes good enough money to provide for us, and I shouldn't 'question him'."
"I got mad and said it wasn't realistic and it was silly for the person who made more money to quit their job."
"Especially since he's the one who thinks someone should be with the baby extra time (I was fine with sending the baby to daycare starting at six months)."
"The fight blew up from there, me saying he's being sexist and not considering my feelings at all."
"I refused to back down, and he ended up taking off after I said he should be the stay-at-home parent if he wants one so bad…"
"…and him saying he didn't deserve to be emasculated just for suggesting I should stay home like a 'good mom'."
"I talked to some of my family and his family about it, and the answers are kind of split."
"So AITA for bringing up the pay disparity and telling him that unless he's the one to stay home, baby is going to daycare?
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"NTA at all. He is being sexist, thinking that since you're a woman, your place is in the home. He's also sexist because he thinks the suggestion that he stays home is emasculating."
"If he is so progressive that word would not have been uttered, He needs to wake up and smell the coffee."
"Stand your ground. He can't make you quit your job. So sign up for those waitlists, and good luck."
"Would he go to counseling? If not, go yourself. I'm concerned this is just the tip of the iceberg of his real feelings, and you need to be prepared." - disney_nerd_mom
"NTA. Your logic is spot on. He's taking the archaic, sexist, illogical, ego-driven path."
"Try living as if he's the only working partner for a few months. Live off of only his income to show him what type of life that would afford you."
"It'll be a wake-up call for him, and you'll have some additional savings at the end."
"I'm a little worried this is the first instance of a mask dropping and that you'll encounter more such sexist or controlling bullsh*t in the future." - hellinahandbasket127
"NTA. I'll be sure to let my husband know I "emasculated" him when he was a SAHD for two years. Plus, your husband basically told you you're a bad mom if you don't stay home."
"I'd be pissed at having my parenting called in question-based solely on if I stayed home."
"Marriage counseling, STAT." - dazedkatwoman
"Well done! You've used logic and sound reasoning to explain why he should be the one to stay home with the baby for the six months to the child's first natal day."
"It is not your fault his ego can't stand up to logic. His emasculation is a result of this, not a thing of your doing."
"He fell back on the training he's had from childhood: women are the homemakers, the stay-at-homes, and the menfolk should hunt."
"It's just tragic IMO that you're the better hunter so far. :D"
"NTA." - tosser9212
"This is bizarre."
"It seems like he is secretly very sexist. Did he never show any signs of this over eight years? It's genuinely cruel of him to imply that you are not a good mother."
"It's also really gross to say that any mention of his salary as it pertains to paying your bills and maintaining your lifestyle for yourselves and your child is tantamount to "emasculating" him."
"Just the idea of taking care of his own child and relying on his spouse's higher salary is somehow emasculating? It's all so disturbing and gross." - laurasdiary
"NTA. I hope this is a blip and him not just starting to show his true colors. He's the one who thinks the baby needs a stay-at-home parent, and he's also the one who makes less."
"So he's welcome to stay home or keep working, and baby will go to daycare. But you quitting your job is not on the table, and he has no right to expect it to be." - Outrageously_Penguin
The OP went on to update her original post.
"Update: I was reading through a ton of comments last night and got really nervous, wondering if maybe I was wrong about my husband being progressive."
"A lot of people were asking why we didn't talk about all this before we got pregnant and the thing is, we did!"
"We had agreed on daycare (for the people suggesting a nanny, I've begun looking into it but they are a really difficult to find sometimes) because we both wanted to keep our jobs that we love."
"My husband has been acting weird and quiet since we fought, but this morning I finally sat him down and was basically like, 'what is going on, this doesn't seem like you'."
"Some of the comments here got me thinking about what his family might be pressuring him to do, and so I asked about that, and a ton of stuff came out."
"He said he brought up the staggered leave to some people in his family at dinner a couple of weeks ago (I wasn't there)."
"And a few of them thought someone should stay home longer, and his brother laughed and made some jokes about my husband being a housewife/stay-at-home mom."
"His brother (35, divorced!) considers himself to be a 'man's man' and has a lot of sexist views, so he's made jokes before about me being the 'breadwinner.'"
"So after hearing this, my husband snapped a bit because some of his coworkers and his older brother have laid into him a bit about the fact that I make more money and have a better job title…"
"…calling him a "trophy husband" and other dumb stuff like that, and it made my husband feel insecure, so he lashed out a bit at me and that's why we fought."
"He's admitted that he felt really bad about it, which is why he's kind of been avoiding me."
"We have now agreed to look into a counselor and more into a nanny service, and he has admitted that he doesn't mind the idea of taking a few unpaid months to stay home…"
"…he's just really worried about his brother and friends' jokes. Thank you to everyone for helping me feel more confident to confront this. We are doing much better."
Sometimes a vulnerable conversation is all that is needed to uncover the real truth.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp