Figuring out living arrangements with family can be difficult.
Siblings taking care of siblings when parents are out of the picture can be especially taxing.
Older siblings don't automatically sign on to be surrogate parents.
When that happens it can blur a lot of lines and trigger a lot of emotions.
Emotions that can whither the family dynamic.
Case in point...
Redditor ThrowRA-brothersgf wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for yelling at my brother's girlfriend because she is trying to get rid of me?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"As the title says, I (15 F[emale]) think my brother's girlfriend (Julie, 24 F) is trying to get rid of me."
"I live with my brother because after my parents divorced and neither of them wanted me so my brother took me (he was 18 I was 8)."
"We lived alone together until a year ago, he got a girlfriend."
"She doesn't live with us but she is at our apartment a lot."
"I don't really like her but I already know he kind of has some resentment toward me because he had to take care of me even when my parents were still together and he couldn't have a life cause he was always busy with me."
"I think they want to get married and I'm scared about where I will go."
"My mom doesn't live in the country (she went back to Korea after the divorce) and my dad is busy with his new family."
"Anyways after school, I wanted to use my brother's phone to watch something."
"I saw a notification come up at the top and it was from my mom."
"I was really curious because I don't talk to my mom like ever and I didn't think he did either."
"Long story short he wants to send me to live with my mom in Korea because Julie wants to move in and start a family."
"She said that when they start their family they don't want to be looking after a teenager as well."
"I didn't tell him anything and just put the phone back."
"I went to sleep really scared and now today I went to my cousin's house and told him what my brother was planning to do and he told his mom."
"I didn't do anything wrong."
"I'm always nice to her."
"I don't know why she doesn't like me."
"I really don't want to move."
"I have friends here and everything."
"I thought he loved me and wouldn't make me go back to her."
"My cousin's mom ended up asking him why he was going to send me to live with my mom and he asked her how she knew."
"She said that I told my cousin and he told her."
"My brother took me back home because he didn't want to cause a scene at my aunt's house."
"When we got back he asked me how I knew and I told him I saw his texts to our mom about how he was sending me away."
"I was really mad and I was yelling at him."
"He just tried to hug me and sat down on the couch with his head down, not talking."
"Then like 10 minutes later Julie came."
"When she came in the living room she asked what happened and my brother said she knows."
"Then Julie tried to talk to me and I stood up and started yelling that I don't know why she has a problem with me but I'm his sister so I'm not leaving."
"I also called her some names because I was really angry."
"Then, to my surprise, my brother pushed my shoulder and told me to go to my room."
"I asked why and he yelled at me to go to my room."
"Julie was crying at this point."
"I went to my room and cried."
"I still think he is going to send me away."
"I don't know why she doesn't like me."
"I didn't do anything to her."
"I told my friends about this and they said I shouldn't have yelled because she probably has her reasons to want me with my mother."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA got yelling at my brother's girlfriend?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole, but there is more to the story.
"OP, I'm going to start off by saying what your parents have done to you AND your brother isn't okay."
"They abandoned you and him and have done what is called parentification."
"This means your brother was forced to be the parent. It's not okay at all."
"Your brother had to put his own life on hold because of you (at no fault of your own)."
"It is not your fault, but your brother needs to focus on his own life and your mother needs to start being a mother again."
"Your brother and Julie aren't doing anything wrong by wanting to move forward with their lives."
"It doesn't mean they don't love you and you are blaming Julie and using her as a scapegoat."
"Maybe your brother wants you gone."
"Maybe your mom does want you back."
"The whole thing… It's not okay."
"You need to hear them out with what is going on."
"And you need to understand you're 15 years old so a lot of stuff is going on in your mind and body that will make things ten times more dramatic and worse."
"You didn't hear them out and give them a chance."
"Your brother has had to give up his life to raise you for a number of years."
"This way of living is not sustainable in the long run for him and yeah it may be selfish but honestly to an extent I don't blame your brother either." ~ starrynight764
"Sadly OP, I was going to say the same thing."
"Unfortunately, you have 3 more years until you can make your own choices."
"Hear your brother out."
"Maybe talk to your aunt and him together with Julie."
"See if there are other options that haven't been considered."
"I feel for you and your brother because no one should be pushed away by their parents."
"And no one should be forced to be a parent of a child who isn't theirs at 18."
"Give your brother some grace because he has given it his best for 7 years." ~ Lil_fire_girl
"I feel for the brother, or whatever, but not more than the OP."
"The time for him to have stopped this was in the beginning when his sister was young."
"To wait until she is 3 years from being an adult herself and sending her off to a foreign country she has presumably never lived in, with the certainty that at 15 years old she is all alone in the world, she can rely on no one."
"And if brother and girlfriend do start a family they are going to 100% regret sending away a live in babysitter." ~ Jessrynn
"It does seem strange and almost cruel to wait until OP is almost at the point of independence to completely uproot her life and send her across the world to where she presumably can't even speak the language."
"At this point, OP can probably function almost independently anyway."
"It's not an ideal situation for her and her brother, but surely they can find a way to manage her having a roof over her head at least until she's 18."
"Or have her live with her aunt or dad."
"I think it would be very unwise to send OP to live with an absentee parent, in a new country where she will be completely at the mercy of strangers."
"She would be so vulnerable." ~ grammarlysucksa**
"You forgot to mention OP's dad."
"He doesn't get a free pass on this."
"Mom is in another country."
"The dad isn't apparently from the post."
"He just got remarried and had a "new" family."
"OP if anything should stay in the country they currently live in and should live with her father if she is not going to reside with her brother."
"The parents are horrible human beings, and OP and brother have been done dirty."
"The brother should never have been parentified."
"Emotionally, he is the parent, though, to OP." ~ throwawtphone
"This. Why not stay with the aunt, indeed?"
"I don't think OP will be in a particularly good place if she goes back to either of her parents."
"They abandoned her once before."
"Who's to say they wouldn't do it again, or treat her badly out of bitterness that they finally have to take responsibility for their daughter?"
"As an abandoned child myself, I would never, ever feel safe around my parents again. Poor OP."
"Aunt and cousin might be her best options for having a secure and loving place to live at this point."
"She does not deserve to have to go back to parents who have treated her badly in the past." ~ JianFlower
"He is going behind OP's back and is planning on sending her to a foreign country with her mother."
"After HOW MANY years of not talking to her f**king child? That is so f**ked up."
"Yes, bro stepped up."
"Now that he has accepted responsibility, HE CAN'T F**KING SEND HER AWAY!!"
"He wants to start his new family and doesn't want to include someone who has been his ward for 6 years."
"Sound like someone from the story... Just like her father."
"I just wish OP had someone who would actually stay for her."
"She should be emancipated so she can have someone who will keep her number one."
"Sadly the only one in OP's life who will is OP herself."
"No one else will." ~ lamb2cosmicslaughter
"OP is a child."
"She's been abandoned by everybody and now her one remaining lifeline wants to abandon her, too."
"And you're on HIS side? No."
"Parentification is never ok, it is absolutely a form of child abuse, but that does not make it acceptable to abandon another child and dump her on a mother who does not want her, in a country she's unfamiliar with."
"That would absolutely destroy her." ~ Pixelated_Roses
OP came back with an update...
"So I went home to talk to my brother, and I wrote a letter to give to him like some of you suggested, as I didn't think I could talk without breaking down."
"The letter basically says 'I'm sorry for yelling at you and Julie, I was just scared.'"
"'There are many things I don't know about my parents and how you have felt about the last 7 (maybe even 15) years.'"
"'But I do not want to go back to my mother. And I don't want to move country.'"
"I gave him the letter after school, and he didn't read it in front of me."
"I came out of my room a few hours after giving it to him and saw him crying in the kitchen."
"When he saw me, he hugged me and told me he was sorry and loved me and didn't know what to do because Julie wanted to move in and she didn't want to be taking care of me because she's only 24 and wants to live her life."
"Julie also came over, and I apologized to her properly."
"I'm writing this in my notes and waiting for another update to put all the info from today in one update."
OP continued...
"So it's been a few hours since then, and he sat me down to talk again with Julie for some reason."
"Anyway he told me that he was just exploring options because I can't live with him forever."
"Obviously I knew that but why doesn't he want me now, what did I do?"
"He also told me that he's booked a ticket for me and him to go to Korea to see my mother, her husband, and the house."
"I'm fine with that because if he's there with me, then he can't leave me there without me knowing."
"But he told me he is leaving a little earlier than I am because he has work."
"I believe that, but I'm also a little suspicious that he is going to leave me there and not take me back."
"I leave for Korea in two days and I'm staying for two (?) weeks, he is staying for one."
"So that's all I have for now is that I'm going to Korea soon to see my mother for the first time in 7 years."
"I don't feel happy or sad. I just feel nothing."
"And here's some clarification because people keep asking the same questions."
"I can't stay with my Aunt as she has four kids already and can't take care of me."
"I believe my brother has guardianship of me, but I do not know because he doesn't tell me anything."
"Julie has done many things to me along with the leaving me at school thing. She's fat-shamed me, made fun of me, is always trying to get me out of the house, and always ignores me whenever my brother tries to get us to hang out together."
"When Julie was trying to talk to me after I found out, she was saying things like 'Please try to understand' and 'It's what we think is best for your and our futures,' and 'Your brother and I want to move forward, and I don't think we can do it with you.'"
"they've only been dating for a year, and she's saying all this, but whatever."
"I know my parents both send money to my brother to help with me, but I do not know if it is formal child support."
"I don't have any friends to stay with."
"If my brother didn't take me in, I would have either gone into a foster home, or my mother would have taken care of me."
"Although she didn't want to, which is why she wasn't the first choice for who would take me."
"My father is in another state with his new wife and family."
"I am half Japanese and half Korean."
"Going to Korea would be hard for me, considering the history."
"I also have a Japanese name, so it's not like I could hide it."
"I barely speak Korean, and moving would mess up my whole education."
"I'm smart in English, not in Korean."
"If you have any more questions, just ask."
"I'm going to talk to my school counselor soon, but it might not be before I leave."
"I still really love my brother, and I don't want him to go to jail or go no contact with him."
Well, OP, Reddit feels for you. This is a tough situation.
Hopefully, you and your mother reconnect.
And with any luck you and your brother can make this work.
Sending so many good vibes.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp