Kids can be cruel sometimes.
Adults can also be cruel, but unkindness can begin at a young age.
It's difficult to combat bullying with temperament and simple words.
But it is doable.
However, it seems not everyone would agree.
Redditor New_Science_1672 wanted to discuss his experience and get feedback, so he naturally joined the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
He asked:
"AITA for refusing to make my daughter apologize to a girl she made mad?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My daughter 11 F[emale] had a soccer game today and I 39 M[ale] was able to take her."
"I also took one of her teammates 11 girls home from their game as well."
"This girl and my daughter are kinda friends, but they aren't super close, and in my opinion, the girl can be kinda mean sometimes, and she was on the ride home."
"My wife and I still have our daughter in a high back booster seat even though it's not a legal requirement at her age in our state, and this girl doesn't use one."
"She started making fun of my daughter's booster seat, saying things like 'you're a big baby' and 'you sit in a baby seat.'"
"My daughter got upset but then told this girl 'I like my booster seat I can see out the window a lot better then you can with it' and 'I have my own seat in the car just for me with my own cupholders and a special place for my snacks.'"
"She then proceeded to show this girl the secret compartment her booster seat has that she keeps her snacks and sometimes toys in."
"This made the girl stop teasing my daughter about her booster seat, and the rest of the ride went okay."
"We dropped the girl off at her house,e and then we went home."
"But later I got a call from the the girls mother, she was furious with me saying that her daughter came home and said my daughter was very mean to her and made fun of her for not having a booster seat."
"I told her that her daughter wasn't being very nice, and maybe if she was nicer to my daughter, this wouldn't have happened."
"But this just made her more mad."
"She said I was a terrible father and still insisted I make my daughter apologize to her daughter, but I still refused because I don't think my daughter has anything to apologize for."
"Since then she has sent me a few angry text messages demanding I make my daughter apologize."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the a**hole.
"I'm gonna say 100% NTA, but with a caveat."
"Maybe you didn't type it out above to save time, but did you just defend your daughter, or did you explain the exchange between your daughter and her friend?"
"If not, try to think about the mother P[oint] O[f] V[eiw], her daughter just came home and said your daughter was mean to her."
"How would you react if your daughter said that to you without the context?"
"The mother only has one side of the story."
"Again, I am just speculating, but if the mother keeps pushing you, make sure she knows the full exchange between the kids."
"If she's still insisting on an apology, then I'd say save your energy and tell her you won't be able to give her daughter FREE LIFTS anymore."
"Real hero of this story is your daughter for standing up for herself!" ~ ChampionshipOne6259
"NTA. But you missed a step."
"You told the mom her daughter wasn't very nice."
"What you DIDN'T do is tell her you heard the entire interaction, and while her daughter started the whole thing by making fun of your daughter, all your daughter did was point out all the cool features and advantages of her car seat."
"She said absolutely nothing bullying towards her daughter."
"By jumping straight to my daughter has nothing to apologize for without correcting the content of the conversation, it sounds to the mom that you are condoning your daughter making fun of the other girl."
"And it doesn't let her know the other girl is lying and manipulating." ~ myssi24
"NTA. Your daughter handled the bully perfectly."
"If anyone needs to apologize, it's the bully and her mother."
"You're raising an amazing daughter."
"She was confident enough not to let that bully comments get to her, and instead showed her the perks of her Booster seat, rather than be embarrassed about it."
"Great parenting!" ~ REDDIT
"I don't think you needed to intervene at all, if the girl had kept her mouth shut and brought it up at school or somewhere you weren't present, you wouldn't have been able to, and your daughter handled it like a queen anyway."
"The other mom is way out of line."
"Like, I get calling when your kid comes home upset, but as soon as you said she started it, mom shoulda buttoned up and had a good long talk with her brat of a daughter before going any further."
"Definitely NTA, dad, and bonus points for raising your daughter to stick up for herself so effectively!" ~ my_old_aim_name
"NTA. It's great that your daughter was able to stand up for herself."
"I would stop offering the other girl rides — and definitely not if the mom doesn't stop harassing you about an apology." ~ calicodynamite
"NTA, and it sounds like that mother can do her own leg work from now on if she's going to be rude about it after you've explained what happened."
"Block her and move on with life."
"Her daughter's sh*tty behaviour is probably a direct result of her own attitude so it's unlikely to change."
"You don't get to rant at someone and then continue to use their generosity."
"Don't mess around with Mama; you're gonna be doing a lot more soccer game trips." ~ TrashPandaLJTAR
"Goodness. She's one of THOSE moms."
"You're NTA, and your daughter is a boss."
"Took that bullying and flamed it like a dragon."
"Good for her." ~ Cali-GirlSB
"NTA. Your daughter responded very maturely."
"Perhaps don't let your daughter hang out with this girl anymore, though?"
"She's mean and lies." ~ yellowsunrise_
"NTA. Your daughter didn't do anything wrong."
"She just defended herself by pointing out the cool features on her seat that the other girl doesn't have."
"There's nothing mean about that." ~ alv269
"NTA. Is she going to have her daughter apologize for calling your daughter a baby and making fun of her?"
"Did you tell her this, and she just didn't care/believe you?"
"Because I would tell this mom to kick rocks and not drive her daughter home anymore."
"Parents who act like their kids can do no wrong are the reasons they end up being brats in the first place." ~ Becca092115
"Your daughter was being teased and she handled it pretty well by standing up for herself without being mean."
"The other girl's mom is being ridiculous by trying to twist the story and make your daughter the bad guy."
"It sounds like her daughter started the whole thing by making fun of your daughter's booster seat."
"Your daughter didn't insult the other girl; she just pointed out the positives of her own situation."
"You were right to not make your daughter apologize for defending herself."
"Maybe the other mom should have a talk with her own daughter about not being a bully in the first place."
"Don't let her guilt trip you; you did the right thing by supporting your daughter."
"Her kid tried to dish it out and couldn't handle it when your daughter didn't just take it." ~ Petalwhisperrrr
"My daughter is also more petite and rode in a booster until around the same age, too, so good on you for doing what you believe is safe for your daughter."
"I think she handled it really well, too."
"In truth, that other girl's mother is exactly the reason that other girl felt comfortable talking to your daughter that way."
"That mother doesn't want your daughter to apologize for being mean; she's upset that her jealous daughter wanted something to make her feel special, too, so now the mom's trying to bully you both over it."
"You're NTA, and I wouldn't offer any more rides to the supposed friend." ~ Ok-Snow956
"NTA... I would have told her exactly how her daughter acted."
"And topped it off with... and now I understand where she gets it."
"We don't apologize for nicely standing up for ourselves."
"If you were a good mom, you'd explain to her now that you understand what actually happened that she actually owes my daughter the apology."
"With every text she sent, I would tell her that her daughter acting childish is understandable, but that she is an adult and this tantrum is unacceptable."
"But, I am the a**hole, and just accept it about myself."
"Try it, its so freeing." ~ Rosie_Hymen
"Sounds like your daughter handled the situation really well for an 11-year-old."
"I would tell the other mother that her daughter was rude and that it's unacceptable behavior."
"You will not be driving her anymore, and not to contact you any further." ~ Illustrious_Bag_7323
"Not at all… your daughter handled that girl's taunting with a grace I don't see often in kids."
"She wasn't argumentative or angry, she just explained why she's not ashamed of being an older kid with quote, 'a baby seat.'"
"The other girl was bratty, sure, but I blame the parents more for enabling that behavior than I do her for feeling inadequate in the moment, that's just something that happens at that age."
"Demanding she be compensated for it when she was in the wrong, however, is a surefire way to raise a monster."
"They need to nip that in the bud before she genuinely grows to be an awful person and frankly do a little self-reflection themselves."
"Keep standing your ground, and don't punish your kid for refusing to take s**t." ~ Other-Ad4174
"One, you're never TA for not forcing your child to apologize."
"Forced apologies are either empty ritual or humiliating violations of the individual's own judgment."
"Two, in this case, your daughter was in the right."
"The other girl was teasing her, and she responded with dignity."
"NTA, on two counts." ~ philautos
"NTA. First of all, huge props to your daughter for being able to take what was meant as an insult to her and turning it into an absolute flex!"
"I could immediately see the green in the other girls eyes when she showed her the pros of having her car seat."
"Second of all, that other girl got a pretty good lesson on 'don't dish it if you can't take it;' and honestly, it wasn't even that bad in terms of her not being able to take it."
"Like I said above, all your daughter did was list all the reasons why her having a car seat was completely awesome to her, absolutely not her fault that the other girl got peanut butter and jealous over that."
"Just block the number of the parent who keeps hounding you to have your daughter apologize, and hopefully you and your family keep living your best lives!" ~ Gtowneupho1
"NTA. I have a 10-year-old still in a high back booster because she is the size of an average 7-year- old."
"She absolutely is required by state law to be in one because of her stature."
"She is so self-conscious, though."
"She prefers to never be seen in the car, refuses to be dropped off in the car line, and is very unwilling to have others in our car without being sure they're going to respect her enough not to comment."
"I would have told the snotty girl, 'Daughter has no say in what seat she sits in, this decision is between in Daughter's mother and I, you need to keep your comments about it to yourself because its not kind of commenting about things people have no choice about like their car booster, their parents' choices and rules, etc.'"
"But your daughter stood up for herself very confidently."
"Bravo to her." ~ wildferalfun
OP responded...
"Glad to hear you're keeping your daughter safe too."
"Maybe you could point out the cool perks her booster seat provides her, and how she has her own special seat in the car, that might make her like it more and be less self-conscious about it."
"Maybe I should have told this girl how mean it was of her to make fun of my daughter's booster seat when she has no say in riding in it, but my daughter handled her pretty good, it seems LOL."
"I'm glad my daughter didn't get really upset and start hating her booster seat because of this girl's mean comments."
"I mean don't get me wrong you're right she's 11, and she has no say in riding in it, it's up to her mom and I, and she is staying in her booster seat until she fits the seatbelt properly without it, but it wouldn't be very much fun having to argue with her and hear her complain about it LOL."
It sounds like you have this handled, OP.
Reddit is clearly here if you need more backup.
Perhaps you should send this thread to the girl's mother.
This way she can learn a few lessons about parenting and apologies.
Good for your daughter for standing up for herself.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp