One of the hardships of parenting is knowing, logically, that you cannot protect your child from everything, while also trying to protect them from everything.
But kids will only learn, become their own person, and grow to be functional adults if they are allowed to have solo experiences, fail, and struggle, at least some of the time, pointed out the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Zestyclose_Limit_306 and their wife were at a crossroads, now that their daughter was in middle school and was qualified to ride the school bus to and from school.
When their wife became convinced that their daughter's chances of being bullied would increase exponentially by riding the bus, the Original Poster (OP) decided to let their wife have her way, only if she did all of the driving back and forth, no matter what.
They asked the sub:
"Am I the a**hole for not taking my daughter to school in the mornings, and instead making my wife do it?"
The OP's daughter was allowed to ride the bus to and from her middle school.
"My daughter is 12 years old, and she qualifies for bus transportation, because her middle school is two and a half miles away, and anything over two miles qualifies. When we presented this to our daughter, she was happy to ride the bus."
"Her elementary was the same distance, and she rode the bus, but now my wife says she doesn't want her to ride the bus because she says bullying is possible, although there's never been any so far."
"For a little background, my wife didn't ride the bus growing up, she grew up poor, in a third-world country, and walked even in the cold or rain."
The OP did not agree with their wife's concerns about the bus.
"I told her I disagree, we are busy in the mornings as it is, and she likes to do her makeup for work, and I have my routine and like to sit back and enjoy my coffee before work as well. "
"I told her we could try the bus, and if anything happened, for our daughter to tell us, and we can put a stop to it and try and resolve it, and if it can't, then we can choose to do car pickup/dropoff then."
"She got mad, and so did I, so I said, 'Fine, if you choose to do the car, then YOU will be the one picking and dropping her off 100 percent of the time, no exceptions.'"
"She said, 'Yes, I will, don't worry about that.'"
After months of driving back and forth, the OP still refused to help their wife.
"Well, now she's burned out and wants me to drop her off because she doesn't have time to do her makeup and is mad that I'm sipping my coffee while she's scrambling in the mornings."
"She has also called me to pick her up on my way back from work, to which I've said NO."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some pointed out that, at the end of the day, what mattered most was what the daughter wanted to do, and the middle-schooler was happy to ride the bus.
"NTA. Your daughter’s opinion matters here more than yours or your wife’s. She’s 12 years old- it’s still young, but old enough to have control in situations like these."
"Your wife either had an awful middle school experience and is projecting that onto your daughter, or is being overprotective."
"If she wants your daughter to be driven to school, let her take her. It’s sad, though, I took the bus in grade school and high school. I made friends, strengthened friendships, and generally had a good time on the bus." - starry_nite99
"I took the bus through middle school and had super good friendships because of that. Your daughter may want to be a part of that, and her opinion matters." - Low-Veterinarian2131
"The daughter's opinion matters more than her parents' given the situation."
"Part of parenting is gradually letting go and allowing our kids to make decisions over their life. OP states there is no bullying going on, and the daughter is okay with taking the bus. Taking the bus allows for socialization, or at least possible socialization, since everyone is always on their phones."
"You can’t shield kids forever, and OP’s wife seems to want to do that." - languid_disaster
Others agreed but wanted to dig deeper into what made the OP's wife feel this way about bullying, specifically on the bus.
"...if it's going to happen, it will happen regardless of the bus, unfortunately."
"If she could get bullied for riding the bus, she would get bullied for having her parents drive her to and from school, too."
"Bullies don't really follow any internal logic. That's just a ridiculous argument." - Belgara
"I think you may want to ask your wife if she was bullied in middle school. She might be anxiously trying to keep her daughter from having the same bad experience she did. Bullying can happen at any grade and time."
"Although I will say, the bus does have some concerning extra factors. Bullied in a classroom or other location at school, and in theory, they can just tell a teacher or walk away. The bus, on the other hand, and the student only has an adult who can't even leave their seat, and cannot leave the area because they need to get home."
"The bus is the most logical solution to everything. It's just that getting your wife to yield means addressing her concerns and getting her to open up more." - CoolCyberCat
"It sounds like your wife had a really tough time on the school bus as a kid and is projecting her fears onto your daughter..."
"Is it an option for her to take the bus two or three days a week for a while, and have your wife drive her the other days? Or one could pick up and one could drop off, and then involve the bus?"
"That way, your wife will have a side-by-side comparison of how mornings and afternoons can be when she's not driving your daughter, and it's a good way to 'test the waters' so your wife doesn't feel like you're throwing your daughter to the wolves 5 days a week." - atropos81092
"As someone who grew up walking to school, I occasionally got jealous watching other kids get picked up. The bullying idea may just be an excuse because your wife really wants to provide her daughter with the comfort she wishes she'd had as a kid." - chrisjozo
"It sounds like your wife has probably got some past experience that she's carrying into her parenting. There must be a reason why she's so convinced that the middle school bus is not safe. If she is coming from a highly emotional place of trauma, then engaging in a battle of the wills is unlikely to be particularly productive. Yes, you are entirely justified in insisting that your wife is the one to chauffeur your daughter to school every day."
"However, it's likely much healthier for your entire family if you try to work with your wife to get to the bottom of this fear. Your daughter certainly isn't going to benefit from your wife and you engaging in a battle of the wills over who has to transport her." - OhCrumbs96
Some focused on an underlying problem, which was that the OP was trying to prove a point. While they were technically "right," being "right" had solved nothing.
"Interesting... While you two are pissing and moaning and trying so hard to be right, your daughter is growing and changing with thoughts of her own that you are both giving up moments to share and hear. My kids are grown. I have school-age grandkids now. Their elementary school is two and a half blocks from our house."
"Let me tell you, from grades kindergarten through fifth grade, I walked both kids to school and both kids home from school. Although it was healthy for me, what I really got from the experience was learning about their day, hearing their thoughts, and watching them happily skip along beside them."
"After this year, one kid will be in high school and one in middle school, miles away. I am going to miss my moments with them, but I have watched them grow into kind, active, and happy little people with confidence and great critical thinking skills. You can bet that as opportunities present themselves, I will still engage."
"But for God's sake, quit wasting this time with your daughter. One day you will be begging for it." - Big-Excitement-5090
"NTA, but you might want to give your wife a way to reverse her decision while saving face (assuming the two of you do want to get on)."
"It's quite possible this was meant well on her side, and now she feels unsupported and feels like she needs to defend the decision."
"I'd consider a sit-down chat where you talk through the potential issues and mitigations and come to a conclusion, preferably along the lines of 'let's do a trial-run with the bus, and see what [daughter] thinks.' You could also point out that taking the bus can be a way of making friends" - Mysterious_Year_4511
"Have you asked your wife why she’s afraid of the middle school bus? Like, did she have a bad experience? My husband was basically tortured on the bus as a kid, so he doesn’t want our kids riding it. Unfortunately, due to his schedule, all the picking up and dropping off falls to me, but I stay home, so it’s my 'job.' It’s very much a trauma response on his part, and while I think the kids would probably be fine, we’re a team, so I do it."
"Some factors are that we live rurally, so our bus route is ridiculously long, and it’s fifth to twelfth. He had no problems with the elementary bus, but the older kid bus is wild."
"Personally, I think the 'I absolutely refuse to help you with things, even though I don’t agree with them' isn’t a great attitude in a marriage- people are weird, everyone has strange hangups about stuff, different preferences, etc., so 'I will do nothing' is… s**tty."
"She called you to ask you to pick up once, if I understand correctly, and you said no. That’s doing nothing from my perspective."
"And your compromise was that she rides the bus until something happens. That’s not really a compromise. That’s 'get over yourself.' Anxiety about things isn’t super rational, and helping deliver or pick up your kid to school to help your wife, whom you presumably love and respect, feel less anxious about something is really not that serious."
"But proving a point, and your coffee-sipping mornings are more important to you, I guess. And I’m going to just point out that wearing makeup is generally expected of women in professional settings- walking around bare-faced isn’t generally accepted."
"We operate on a two-yes, one-no system in our home, so if one parent feels strongly about something being a 'no' for the kids, then it’s a no. Your wife feels a strong no about the bus- is it rational? Probably not, but s**t does happen on school buses, because there’s very limited supervision." - Additional-Bus7575
"ESH. Your wife was wrong. You were right. The bus would have been a better option. The morning and afternoon pickups are indeed too much of a hassle."
"Congratulations! You win the 'I'm Right' Award!!
"Meanwhile, your wife is struggling and is unhappy. She's asking you for help, and instead of lifting a finger, you're hitting her with a big fat 'I told you so.'"
" Your daughter is old enough to understand what's going on. How do you think she feels, seeing you double down on being right, instead of stepping up and helping? Do you think she'd rather have a dad who was right, or a dad who steps up for his family?" - Devourerofworlds_69
While the subreddit could understand why the OP saw their wife's reaction as an overreaction and felt that nothing would likely happen on the bus, they ultimately felt that the fault lay with the OP, who was so insistent on being right. They were jeopardizing their parenting, their partnership with their wife, and potentially even their wife's work, depending on how dependent her work was on appearances and timeliness.
Proving they were right had already been done, but with less than a few months of the school year left, it was likely time to let that argument go.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp