Being bullied is a traumatizing experience. So, when your family invites said bully into your home it can create some tension.
Understandably, it would be hurtful and disappointing to have your family defend someone who bullied you.
Redditor throwawayaita90101 encountered this very issue with his wife and children. So he turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for moral judgment.
He asked:
"AITA for staying neutral in a situation between my son, my daughter, and my wife?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"This all started a couple of years ago and it completely split our family apart."
"My son, Z (22), has pretty much been estranged from us since he was 18. Adam is the son of good family friends, he and my daughter, P (24), begun dating around when they were 19."
"The problem is Adam was a bully to my son throughout school, as you can imagine he didn't take it very well. He was furious, however my daughter refused to budge on this."
"I tried to stay out of the situation but my wife took my daughter's side, partially as we're good friends with Adam's parents, but also because she thought Z would eventually get over it."
"Unfortunately that didn't happen, instead it made a stark difference in my son's personality, he had become much more aggressive, cold and disrespectful."
It caused a strain in their relationship.
"He no longer listened to what me or his mother had to say, often using intimidation to get what he wanted, he would also disappear for days at a time without so much as a word."
"This would more or less carry on until he left for university, after which he probably spent no more than 2 weeks in total back at home, opting to stay with friends or whatever girl he was seeing at the time."
"He has rejected any olive branch we extend."
"This has completely destroyed our family and it especially hurts my wife as they were quite close before this happened. The last time we spoke was last year before lockdown, he called me a coward for sitting on the fence."
"I understand why he feels the way he does, but was I really wrong to stay neutral in this?"
"I didn't feel like it was my place to control my daughter's dating life."
Redditors gave their opinions on the situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Most Redditors agreed OP was the a**hole.
"YTA Why did you two not help your son while he was being bullied? why be friends with the bully's parents?"
"You aren't neutral. You took the bully's side." ~ SantaPachaMama
"Seeing your childhood bully for extended period because your sister thinks it's totally fine to date him and no one is on your side can alienate you to the point of going no contact." ~ DarkStar0915
"Yep, YTA."
"So are your daughter and your wife. Especially your daughter."
"I would NEVER have dated someone who'd bullied my sibling. That is a betrayal of a huge magnitude, and the fact that your wife supported her horrible actions and you stayed out of it was also a betrayal to him."
"Your wife made it clear to her son that he is less valuable to her than his sister, so she has no right to feel hurt. You refusing to take part was tantamount to taking her side."
"You as a family excluded your son and left him with no support."
"Your son had every right to feel the way he did about this situation. He rejects your 'olive branches' because they mean nothing." ~ Somethingisshadysir
OP also added Adam's younger brother also had some issues.
"Adam's younger brother made the mistake of trying to pick on my son, this back fired and my son has more or less bullied him until he went off to university."
"Typically taking money off him and his friends, of course he completely ignored me when I tried to speak to him." ~ throwawayaita90101
"YTA, a horrible and cowardly person, I mean seriously, your 'friends' don't like your son because Adam's brother tried to bully him and your son didn't let him, but you're totally fine with Adam who was a horrible bully, and you don't see the hypocrisy here?
"Your friends might be failures as parents, but at least, AT LEAST, they have their son's back."
"And by the way, this speaks VOLUMES about your friend's family, the older tormented your son mercilessly and the younger tried to follow in his foot-steps, good on your son for defending himself."
"I'm happy your son got away from your family, hope he has a nice life." ~ chickenmeh
"The missing reasons are Adam's parents are their best friends and they (the parents) refused to do anything out of fear of hurting their friendship. Adam's little brother tried to bully the son, and the son showed him what was up with that."
"So Adam's parents don't like Z because he stood up for himself. They knew their sons were bullies and did nothing to help." ~ aurumphallus
"YTA"
"So to summarize you are good friends with a family that has raised two bullies who both pick on your son but when one of the bullies retaliated against by your son that's when you step in to admonish your son."
"It seems you have no problem stepping in to make your son feel like sh*t but how dare your son stick up for himself!"
"Also, I notice the bully gets a full name but your son is only 'Z' which shows how much of an afterthought he really is to you." ~ WorkRedditHooray
"You're the a**hole but not as much as your wife. Your son needed your help because the person who was bullying him was making his way into the family and when he needed support the most you all pulled the rug from under him."
"Basically he has no reason to trust any of you. As a teen my family did things like this to me."
"If you want him to trust you ever again then you better tell his mom and his sister how sh*tty that was. But also be on his side."
"I didn't talk to my family for four years because they did this exact thing so you have to decide what's more important, your daughter's boyfriend or your son and stick with him." ~ Peep_6782
"YTA. Your son was bullied and there is no neutrality in that situation."
"You're with the victim or the bully."
"You chose the bully as did your wife so it's not surprising that your son backed away from all of you."
"Y'all brought this on yourself." ~ Knittingfairy09113
"YTA. You're the a**hole, your wife is the a**hole and your daughter is the a**hole."
"Your whole family decided to be ok with the bullying and staying friends with the bully's parents rather than help your son."
"The fact that your daughter can see how much hurt this guy caused her brother and still dated him is disgusting."
"Your whole family is trash and I'm glad he threw you away." ~ Inevitable-Okra-3229
"YTA and a terrible father. I'm glad your wife is upset about the situation that you two created."
"I hope she continues to be in pain because that's the consequence for being such an awful mother." ~ Cultural_Principle_8
"So let me see if I got this straight. Your son was being bullied by the son of a family friend."
"The bully then began dating your daughter when she was 19, making your son 17."
"Your son made it clear he did not support the relationship, and began acting aggressively when he learned that his mother did support the relationship."
"His father has not said a peep."
"You and your wife thought your son would 'get over it' and you tried extending an olive branch many times."
"You and your wife… YTA."
"You are SO clueless. And you're shocked that he went no contact with you?"
"All three of you made it clear his well being wasn't as important as his sister's sad little relationship."
"But your son will be ok. Family isn't blood, and he will find people who truly care for him."
"YTA YTA YTA" ~ deep_shaking
"I think it's interesting how you use the phrasing 'THIS has completely destroyed our family'."
"You are the ones that destroyed your family. Saving face and looking good were your priorities over being there for your son and respecting and valuing your son's feelings."
"If it were me, I would be full NC [no contact] with you all at this point. You need to get some therapy in your life, both family therapy and individual therapy."
"Your son should be in therapy as well. Bless your son's heart if he ever decides to forgive you for this."
"I'm 32 and my Mom and I just started therapy together because she dismissed me in favor of others just like you have done to your son."
"And after many years I finally got sick of pretending like we had any sort of relationship that brought value to either of our lives."
"So I gave me Mom an ultimatum, go to therapy with me to hash out our differences or I didn't have any interest continuing any sort of relationship or contact with her. Do not let it get to this point with your son."
"How could looking good to another family be worth losing any chance you have of a relationship with YOUR SON, your flesh and blood." ~ Lalalabambi
"YTA, saying nothing does not mean you are neutral and also you did a great job at raising a daughter who dates bullies especially those that bullied her own brother."
"At this point don't even try to reconcile and to your wife tell her that she chose 'close family friends' over her own son and doesn't have any right to mourn about it."
"Please start acting like adults it really feels like both of you prefer to keep a clean nice image in front of society and social circles than have a healthy and loving relationship with your son."
"I feel sorry for him for getting such an unfortunate and selfish 'family'." ~ Dodo_Moon
OP added some more context.
"Well this blew up and I can see where it's going, I won't argue with it but I want to clarify somethings a lot of people have been asking about."
"A lot of people have questioned my wife and son's relationship. I assure you they were very close, they spent a lot of time together and my wife genuinely looked forward to when they hung out."
"In fact she's the reason why I'm even posting, she has completely cut off contact with my daughter and Adam because at this point she only feels resentment towards them."
"As I've mentioned in a reply, we misjudged the situation back then."
"Regarding Adam's younger brother, I did not say he made 'a mistake', I said he made 'the mistake'- as in he acted like an idiot and got what he deserved initially."
"I only intervened because my son escalated the situation to the point the school were getting involved."
"I didn't want my son to cut off his nose to spite his face, fortunately he was able to make it through without getting kicked out. And no he didn't go after anyone that didn't have a problem with him."
"My daughter regrets how fragmented her relationship with my son has become, she only realized this however when she was deep into her relationship."
"Someone asked regarding the influences in my son's life, he made a group of friends that he constantly was getting into trouble with- fights and marijuana related specifically."
"My wife's father kind of took my son under his wing, teaching him how to fight and such."
"They are close which is surprising given my FIL isn't an easy man to get along with. When my FIL learned of the situation he ripped into us including my daughter."
"With Adam's parents, they just helped us during a difficult time in our lives, especially my wife. But our friendship has also been strained, I slowly distanced myself and my wife no longer talks to them point blank."
"Me and my wife aren't under the impression that we are somehow innocent in this, we understand we were wrong and made a misjudgment."
"Finally, most importantly, rest assured my son is in a very good place right now, at least from the outside."
"He's grown into a very handsome young man, seems to have calmed down a great bit and seems to be in a very good place financially- better than any of us at the very least."
Despite his clarifications, Reddit was pretty clear in their belief this family pushed this son to go no contact through their choices.
OP needs to stand with his son on this one.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp