True narcissists lack the ability to nurture their children because they don't see them as individuals, only as extensions of themselves. Their children's feelings and needs are neglected and criticized, while their own take center stage.
Narcissists feel entitled and insist on getting their way. They exact compliance through control, manipulation, guilt, and shame.
Their insecurity drives their insatiable, unrealistic demands for attention. Because they lack boundaries, they project and shame and blame others for their own faults.
Every accusation is a confession.
A woman dealing with an insufferable mother-in-law turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
Due_Understanding992 asked:
"AITAH for cracking open a beer in front of mother-in-law (MIL) after she tried humiliating my dad for drinking?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My MIL (64) is a very opinionated person when it comes to alcohol. No one knows why. There are no alcoholics in the family and she isn't religious."
"She has no siblings and her mom never had a drinking problem (source: everyone in the family says so, I personally have zero clue—they said she would occasionally have a glass of wine on holidays)."
"She doesn't know her dad (allegedly). The story MIL first gave me was that her father was an abusive drunk. It would explain why she doesn't like drinking, right?
"But a week later she informed me, in front of her mom, that she never met her dad and that her mom never dated him either. He was a one night stand that she met at some concert (or something) and she never told him she was pregnant."
"Her mom never had a boyfriend or got remarried (she was married before) and is still single, so she couldn't have been talking about a stepdad.
"My husband's father (MIL's ex) doesn't drink, never has, per MIL's admission and my husband's and his sibling's recollection. So, who knows what her real aversion is."
"Some of her kids say it's just a control thing. Who knows? She basically just tells my husband (36) every chance that she gets that he needs to stop drinking because he's going to be an alcoholic or tells him that he needs to 'control' me because I drink and she feels I am going to coerce my husband into drinking."
"Do keep in mind that my husband has a few beers maybe once or twice a month and could make a 6 pack last for weeks. If she 'catches' him drinking, she goes up one side of him and down the other about how he needs therapy or AA."
"Now, she found out I was having my dad over for dinner yesterday after a discussion she was having with my husband (she asks him near every night what his plans are) and decided on a whim that she was going to come as well.
"She didn't tell us and considered it a 'surprise visit'. Her behavior regarding how enmeshed she tries to be with my husband is a topic for another day (she's toxic as f*ck)."
"But anyways, she shows up here. My dad was having a few beers and we were just chatting in the kitchen when MIL rolls in. She instantly turns her nose up at my dad because he's drinking. I notice it; my father and husband did not."
"She doesn't say anything originally, but after about a half hour my father had grabbed another beer and MIL said something like 'don't you think you've had enough? I am very uncomfortable with you drinking around me. Its rude'."
"I was honestly just having a petty moment and I grabbed myself a beer as soon as she started cornering my father and trying to humiliate him. She does not know my dad. Has met him once."
"So, I grab a beer and I start drinking it while staring at her. She starts grabbing her stuff and as she walked out, she was saying something to the affect of 'lord forbid I have a nice dinner with my son'."
"After she walked out, my husband just kind of looked at me with raised eyebrows and shook his head before turning away and excusing himself to the bedroom. Things got awkward after that and my dad left within 20 minutes."
"I tried talking to my husband about it and all he would say was that I was being 'f*cking childish' and if I had just given him 3 seconds he would have handled his mother."
"But realistically, when MIL was humiliating my father, my husband was literally just sitting there staring at the ground with his hands in his pockets."
"I gave it at least 30 seconds from her not talking to me deciding to grab a beer and my husband hadn't said anything so I really don't think he was going to."
"That and she wasn't invited. My dad was. I can't tell if I am wrong here or not."
The OP later added:
"MIL has nothing to do with our daughter. Even when she's here, she all but ignores the baby. Never held her, never showed interest."
"She just follows a foot behind my husband everywhere he goes when she's here and ignores everyone else. If he picks up the baby, she will put on a fake smile and drop a 'oh how cute, daddy's girl' comment, but that is the extent of it."
"When my husband has asked her to engage with the baby, she says 'nope, I had my time as a parent'."
"It's honestly very hard for me because my husband is actually a kick a** man and I am very much in love with him. BUT when I met my husband, his mom never contacted him and he hadn't seen her in nearly 2 years."
"I met her when I was with my husband for roughly 6 weeks, because I got pregnant unexpectedly. His mom came flying out of the woodwork and trying to build a relationship with her son."
"She didn't raise him, his dad did, she didn't even have visitation more than a few times from age 10ish to 16. I miscarried 9 weeks later and all of a sudden she vanished again."
"Then when we announced years later that we were engaged, she came back with a vengeance; insisting on mommy son dates, etc... And then when I got pregnant 3 years ago with our daughter, it got 50x worse."
"So, having seen him during the periods of his mom not being around and having her influence on him, I can 100% say that I am not ready to give up on him. I truly feel that where his mother is so prone to just walking away and essentially ghosting her son at random, he is just desperate to keep the peace."
"That and she ALWAYS says things like 'I won't be around forever' and talks about the stroke she allegedly had like 10 years ago and the brain tumor she allegedly had 30 years ago and she uses these medical issues to scare the sh*t out of my husband and coax him in to basically bending to her will because he genuinely thinks his mom is going to drop dead because of how she talks."
"So, it's extremely unfortunate, but I know that it's just not something I will leave him over. I have seen the manipulation. It would f*ck with me too. You know?"
"He is in therapy, but unfortunately, it is currently sporadic."
"She only invites herself here when it's inconvenient, to be honest. If she knows we have plans, she comes over."
"He actually b*tches about his mom more than I do, by a long shot. He hates how she acts and how she talks to people. He just won't do anything about it."
"I have definitely told him several times I don't want her to come here uninvited, and he has extended that to her, but she only stops briefly before showing back up again."
"And by that point, my husband had this water under the bridge type of outlook, so he does nothing to enforce the boundary. 100% a husband problem."
"I have put my foot down several times regarding the random, unannounced visits. I absolutely hate it. But without a husband to enforce boundaries, I get pretty much sidelined. It sucks."
"But I am slowly grasping the reality and looking at options on my own time, if that makes sense. At least I have reached a point where I realize I do have options. I didnt come to that realization until our daughter was born."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not wrong and should do more to enforce boundaries (NTA).
"You're not wrong at all. Uninvited 'guest' forces her way in and tries to shame everyone else for not adhering to the bizarre rules she wants to enforce in someone else's home?"
"Your husband wasn't going to deal with his mother. He had 30 seconds already, and the next three seconds would've been the same."
"He was hoping everyone would bend the knee to his mother, and he wouldn't have to address it. NTA. Your husband is weak." ~ BulbasaurRanch
"Dude is just all up in his big feelings because his wife is more effective at shutting his mother down than he is. And honestly, I'm sorry, but as soon as she started disrespecting people in a home not her own, OP's husband should have shut that sh*t down at once." ~ JeffSpicolisVan
"Just give him 3 seconds. Ummm you've given him 8 plus years, time for him to grow up and get off the teet." ~ Jen0507
"Each partner in a relationship is responsible for keeping their family in line. To wall off any craziness. He failed."
"Yeah, let him sulk, looks like he needs some self timeout moments. Once(hopefully) his head clears and he's ready to be an adult again, you can have a conversation with him. Tell him clearly what you expect." ~ catsyfishstew
"OP, tell your husband that if he can defend his mom, you can defend your dad." ~ Ready-Conflict-1887
"I have a feeling MIL is an undercover drinker! That's my theory and I'm sticking to it."
"She is projecting and shaming people about drinking to make herself appear holier than thou. My MIL (thankfully we hardly see her and she lives far away) drinks wine out of a coffee up while commenting on other people's drinking…"
"OP's husband needs to grow a spine, some balls, and cut the umbilical cord. Good for her. You don't come into my house uninvited(even if invited) and pull that sh*t." ~ MartinisnMurder
"Your MIL crashed your dinner and tried to control what you do in your own house, and your husband is mad at YOU?"
"F*ck that .
"You have a husband problem, OP. Don't let him make you feel like you did something wrong."
"Let him know you will be doing the same thing the next time she crosses boundaries because he doesn't do anything to stop her, like not telling her when you have plans. NTA." ~ _A-Q
"Honey, she is winning. She got to come over. She ruined your dad's visit. She has you second-guessing yourself. And the best part for her is that your husband is mad at you. She is very good."
"Your husband is purposely ignoring your needs. Actively choosing his mother over you. Ugh, I'm so bothered by this as my MIL is awful too. I feel bad for your dad. Poor guy. He got caught in the line of fire."
"Why do you have to accept his mother in your home? This is literally an emotional war; you do not invite the enemy into your safe place."
"Can he go stay with her while you and him go to therapy? You can't possibly be so in love with him that you are willing to accept this treatment. Right?" ~ Mowsmom22
The OP recognizes she has a husband problem and a mother-in-law problem that both need to be addressed.
Hopefully, she's now got the confidence to take the necessary steps.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp