When a new partner comes into the picture, some families will be incredibly welcoming and try to include their new member in everything.
But that can be hard if the partner doesn't share the same interests, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
While finalizing their plans for Christmas, Redditor ViolinistOk9892 was surprised when her son expressed an interest in changing the family's tradition of taking a morning hike.
When he continued to persist, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if she was wrong to tell him no.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for not downgrading the family pre-feast hike on Christmas morning for my son's girlfriend?"
The OP's family shared a long-term Christmas tradition.
"Ever since I can remember, our family has always gone on a hike on the morning of Christmas. We did it all through my childhood, my husband's family did it, and my friend's families are similar, though for some it's just a walk, or some go into the city and do an easy 5 or 10k run."
"My son Porter has been dating Emily for the past 6 months. I'm happy she's going to join us. They're coming from the city about 3 hours away so they'll be staying overnight."
"I've met Emily before and think she's a great match for Porter. I know there's all that hoopla about the Mother-in-Law (MIL)/Daughter-in-Law (DIL) dynamic and I just have no time for any of that. If Porter likes her and she treats him with kindness, and he is the same, who am I to complain?"
But the OP was surprised when the couple seemed less than enthused by the holiday plans.
"I skyped with them on Thanksgiving, just making plans for who's bringing what for Christmas, gifts, and such."
"I also mentioned that she should remember to bring her hiking boots but we'll have plenty of Yaktrax if the trails are icy."
"She was visibly confused and asked what for, so I explained. She got quiet and asked if she had to."
"I said no, of course she doesn't have to, but we've always done this and I was surprised Porter didn't mention it."
The OP's confusion increased during a later phone call.
"The next day, Porter called and explained that Emily is not in great shape and would struggle with keeping up, even on one of the easier trails nearby."
"He said that maybe we can just do a nice short family walk in the neighborhood this year so she feels more welcome."
"I said that maybe the two of them can hang back and enjoy a nice quiet morning before the festivities begin while the rest of us go for the hike."
"I remember being young with Porter's father and how special those early Christmas mornings always were."
"Plus, this will be her first time with the family and it's going to be a LOT."
The OP wasn't sure what to think.
"Porter got annoyed and said I'm not hearing him. He said that he really thinks we need to cut the hike down or make different plans."
"I told him in return that this is a family tradition that goes back for years, and changing it for one person isn't fair to the rest of the family."
"We're at a stalemate. I even said that if they hang back for the morning, I'd be happy to go on a nice walk with Emily and Porter later in the day during a quiet moment."
"He said I'm still not hearing him."
"AITA for not being willing to downgrade the hike to a little stroll around the neighborhood?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some agreed there were other options besides "downgrading" the hike.
"I think 'she is embarrassed' is what he is trying to say OP isn't hearing. Anything other than the Emily being able to participate fully means she will be embarrassed, and so he thinks the entire family should accommodate her, rather than them (her) stand out because they aren't participating."
"What he isn't grasping is that far more attention will be called to the fact that Emily is out of shape if everyone is asking why the hike isnt happening like it always does, rather than them just playing the young couple wanting some space card." - TheDudette840
"If another family member or two decide to stay back for an alternative, like watching a Christmas movie, or playing board games, that could take the focus off her not being comfortable, and make opting out in favor of an alternative activity the focus."
"This will keep happening as OP's family expands with new spouses and children. It probably should start now."
"I know if my partner's family had what really feels like a mandatory activity that I wouldn't want or wasn't able to do, I'd just send them off to their family alone, and stay home. I'd dread the activity and worry about what people think of me for 'ruining' a tradition." - cubemissy
"As someone who has lost over 250 pounds, I definitely couldn't have participated in a 5-mile hike when I was obese, hell - I'd be out of breath from walking to my car in the parking lot outside work. These days I walk 5k every single evening."
"But at my biggest, I still wouldn't have dreamed of having everyone else adapt to me. Everyone changing their plans because I'm too fat to participate? No thank you."
"If anything, that would just highlight exactly what they're trying to avoid. Just say, 'I think we'll skip the hike this year, we want to have some alone time' or whatever. It doesnt have to be complicated." - RoundishWaterfall
"Heck, they could start on the big hike, hang back, spend some one-on-one time with each other, and catch the group on the way back. She doesn't have to overdo herself and still gets to enjoy family time."
"Or they could make breakfast for everyone to enjoy when they get back? Hot cocoa?"
"There are compromises to be made here without anyone feeling bad." - Aurora_Gory_Alice
"I hate hiking and I'm not in the shape for it. Personally, I would be embarrassed if my boyfriend asked his whole family to dump their yearly tradition to accommodate me. I would either take the chance to sleep in so my boyfriend could go, or hang with my boyfriend alone if he didn't want to leave me by myself." - Kuromi87
"I had a really similar situation last summer to Emily when I went to Yosemite with my in-laws. They are all very fit and LOVE hiking. I'm overweight, but not completely unfit."
"When we went to Yosemite, they wanted to do a 6-mile hike to a waterfall. I opted for a leisurely stroll through a historic cemetery and a few hours in the Ansel Adams museum which was heaven."
"I cherish those moments alone when I'm on trips with my bf's family. I love spending time with them, but I need time to recharge, too." - UrSmarterThanILook
"My mom would just explain: She's your girlfriend, honey, not mine. So you manage and you support her needs and let me please enjoy the holiday as I've done in the past. I don't have a girlfriend to impress, okay?" - AndSoItGoes24
"NTA at all. I hate hiking so hiking on Christmas morning sounds like a special h**l to me but I'd love to just hang back with my boyfriend and steal a couple of hours to ourselves in the morning instead."
"I wonder if this 'downgrade the hike!' is really coming from Emily or if it's just what Porter assumes she wants." - Primary-Lion-6088
Others also wondered if this had more to do with Porter than his girlfriend.
"I think Porter's confused. You heard him and you're offering two compromises." - runbikerace
"I want to know why Porter didn't mention this before now to his girlfriend. Instead, she's heard it from his mom and is unexpectedly feeling not included. I don't think his mom is at fault, I think Porter is and is frantically backtracking for not preemptively having a plan in place for him and Emily to do something on their own."
"Or else Porter doesn't want to miss out on the tradition, so thinks everyone should plan around him. I'm unconvinced that Emily is the issue here."
"I can imagine being Emily and feeling like they are talking about a hike that needs some sort of special equipment, and my boyfriend didn't think to maybe mention this was an expectation. I would be stressing about not making a good impression if I couldn't participate in this family tradition that he didn't bother to prepare me for."
"He really should have been like, 'Yeah, my family normally does a hike, but I thought we would do a romantic activity, just for us, and then see if anyone wants to join us for a gentle stroll later in the day.'" - LiliTu9Tails
"I bet Emily feels not just unincluded but unprepared, like she might not be as good a fit for Porter's family as she may have thought if this was something so inconsequential that they mentioned it offhand."
"There's a h**luva difference between my loved ones who default to bringing hiking boots and those who don't, and that's a lifestyle difference." - Crackinggood
"Even if no one was upset and no one mentioned not going hiking, it would still be the elephant in the room. It would be so uncomfortable for the girlfriend, knowing she was the reason they were all staying home if they canceled."
"Plus, a little alone time to adjust to being in a new place is nice. If the girlfriend doesn't feel pressured, or embarrassed by making everyone give up the tradition, she might be inspired to get in better shape before next year (if she wants to get involved in the hike, that is)."
"I'm not sure why Porter objects to staying home with his girlfriend for the morning. Perhaps he's hoping for an end to the tradition because he doesn't like it and is using her as an excuse." - naughtyzoot
"I think it's what Porter wants and he's happy to throw Emily under the bus to get his way."
"Maybe that's why he's so hung up on not being 'heard.' He doesn't want OP to hear that Emily will struggle, despite that being what he is saying. He wants OP to hear that he doesn't want to do the hike for whatever reason and expects the whole family to accommodate that, but he also wants it to be anyone's fault but his that he wants that."
"After all, as others have noted, it's curious this never came up at any point once it was determined Emily was coming for Christmas. And six months isn't a huge amount of time to be insisting the family change their tradition instead of Emily and Porter adapting it to suit them."
"I don't know. Maybe it is all just as Porter says but it does feel to me like this is less about what Emily wants and more about him being done with the tradition and that somehow meaning everyone else has to be done with it (at least in its current form) too." - shadowofshinra
While the subReddit could understand wanting everyone to be involved in this family tradition, they also thought that giving Emily a way out could be much more helpful to her than changing the nature of the hike.
As some pointed out, the family would be more likely to gesture to Emily's fitness level if the hike was changed for everyone, rather than offering Emily an alternative activity.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp