Raising children in the early 2020s, parents may come up against a variety of opposition, especially those generational and religious in nature.
And sometimes a comeback to a snide comment is too good to pass up, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor indigeniusbabe was tired of hearing her mother's comments about her two sons' hair length, especially that of her younger son.
But after she delivered a witty comeback, the Original Poster (OP) couldn't help but wonder if she had second thoughts about her behavior.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for using my mom's religion against her after insulting my son's hair?"
The OP wasn't the most comfortable with her mother's religious practices.
"I (32 Female) was raised Mormon but I'm not now, nor do I follow any other religion. My mom is still very much in the cult."
"As such, she has the typical Mormon mindset regarding gender roles and all that bulls**t. Granted, I still think she'd be this way without her religion, though maybe not as bad."
"We get along splendidly, except when the topic of her religion comes up, which doesn't often."
During a recent visit, tensions rose.
"She's visiting right now. I don't see her in person much but she came down for my birthday. It's also important to note that I have two sons."
"My 5-year-old has a Mohawk. My 3-year-old has shaggy, shoulder-length hair. He's never had a haircut for a multitude of reasons, none of which would even be asked if he were a girl."
"Not long after she got here, she started going in on his hair. This is not the first time she's given her opinion on it. Why don't I cut it? Don't I want to prevent him from being bullied? Or from people thinking he's a... GIRL?"
"Because he hasn't asked and I want it to be his choice. Because he acts like I'm murdering him when I brush his teeth and hair. Because he also flails around like he's having an exorcism so imagine that with a pair of scissors. Because if someone sees long hair and assumes 'girl,' that's on them and a simple 'he's a boy' corrects it."
"But mostly it's because I don't f**king want to."
The moment escalated.
"She got p**sed and said what she really thought, which was, 'Well, I just don't like long hair on boys.'"
"Clearly. Yet she has no problem with my other son's MOHAWK. Guess that's boyish enough for her. AND she said it in front of both my sons, which p**sed ME off."
"I said the first thing which came to my head, which was, 'If you have a problem with long hair on boys, I suggest you take it up with your lord and savior Jesus Christ. You can start by asking him to get a haircut. Call John the Barber.'"
"Bruh. If looks could kill, I'd be in outer darkness right now."
"She stewed in her anger for a while but didn't say anything else. She hasn't changed her opinion nor will she, but I don't think she wants to get roasted again either so she won't bring it up anymore."
After the fact, the OP felt conflicted.
"I feel like we're both a**holes. As much as I hate her religion, that was also a low blow and I have a tendency to speak first, and regret later."
"Though I don't necessarily regret my words, I do regret how they made her feel. She is my mom after all."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some found the OP's reaction to be perfectly hilarious.
"NTA and I'm a former Mormon, too."
"This is HILARIOUS and I loved your response."
"Sure, your mom is upset, but she doesn't think twice about the dumb culty s**t she says to you too from the sounds of it. Don't give none if you can't take none."
"Also, please keep using the word Mormon, it's a win for Satan after all." - notbonusmom
"As a current Mormon, I am cackling! I think all religious people who don't act Christlike are just ASKING to have their religion thrown back in their faces. I've done it to my own parents." - Honey_Concept14
"NTA and daaaa*mn that roast! I feel ALIVE again." - virobacter
"NTA. Your mom should have kept her closed-minded opinions to herself, and you have nothing to feel guilty for. If she feels bad, perhaps she should have dropped the conversation."
"You are a grown woman with children, and if she can't respect that, then she might want to rethink another visit. Also, just because she's your mother, does not mean you have to allow her to talk to you or your children like that. Family does not automatically get a free pass."
"Your comeback was PERFECT, and I'm glad you were able to stand up for yourself and your children." - DrFrankenfurtersCat
"NTA. I could have written this. My Mormon mom has commented on my sons' hair numerous times. She even shaved off my sons' Mohawks when they were left in her care. She said they looked like 'hooligans.' I swear half of it is her generation and the rest is religious."
"I can absolutely imagine this scenario happening to us. Thank god I got my kids out of Utah. 'John the Barber' is killing me, couldn't help but laugh." - kaismama
Others were glad the OP stood up for her sons.
"I'm really struggling with Mormonism as of now, so I commend you for doing this. Let the boys wear whatever hairstyle they want. They're young and it sounds like they both look adorable. Definitely NTA." - inreallife12001
"I've been going to a Mormon church for about a year now and the closest thing I've found is in my "For The Strength of Youth" booklet that's about dress and appearance is this: Young men and young women should be neat and clean and avoid being extreme or inappropriately casual in clothing, hairstyle, and behavior.'"
"But things are evolving and becoming more accepted, a friend of mine in the church has multiple piercings and another line in the same book says: 'Do not disfigure yourself with tattoos or body piercing. Young women, if you desire to have your ears pierced, wear only one pair of earrings.'"
"She has a nose piercing, and multiple ear piercings and is planning on getting another eventually. People always comment saying how cool it looks and NEVER make rude comments."
"I think the mother personally just doesn't like it and is using religion as an excuse to say these things because I've yet to meet a single Mormon who would say something like that. I'm sure there are Mormons out there who are like that, but I've yet to meet any. OP is NTA." - Shadowhunter648
"Coming from someone raised Mormon whose brother had shoulder-length shaggy hair growing up, no one really cared. Most thought it was sick since he was a skater. Some of the oldies would tease him but it was also out of love and never demeaning."
"If anything, following the church's standards, the Mohawk would be considered more inappropriate than the long hair."
"Also, there was a Polynesian family that came to church, and growing up the little boys kept their hair long hair until they decided they wanted to cut it. The family really focused on sharing their culture with the church members so I'm assuming that choice was part of it." - antifame_monster
"Men have had long hair throughout history. It's only relatively recently that short hair became the norm. Now, men can wear their hair any length they want and it's pretty well accepted. There used to be the expectation that when women reached a certain age, they had to have short hair. We don't do that crap anymore."
"NTA. Plus, who's going to be bullying him at 3 years old?"
"My nephew used to have screaming fits while getting his hair cut, so much so that it was dangerous. My brother bought a Flowbee and buzzed his hair for years without a problem." - Sciencegirl117
"NTA, I don't think this is anything to do with religion though."
"This is just her personal preference. Technically you are right, if she prays long enough, at some point I have no doubt he will have a hair cut, it might be years but she can still consider it a victory, as her prayer will have been answered, just not in the timeframe or way shes hoping for." - thefore
But some weren't convinced that this needed to be a religious issue at all.
"The gentlest of ESHs, and only because it's not clear Mom's Mormonism is directly related to her issues with your son's hair (which to be clear are problematic for other reasons, but that's neither here nor there with this judgment), and her Mormonism did not seem to be relevant at the moment."
"I mean, it was a sick burn, admittedly. As an atheist, it's even appreciated. But it wasn't really relevant, so it feels more like an opportunistic swipe at Mormonism, than a defense of the kid's hair. Maybe."
"Even as I type, I'm on the fence on this one, but I'll stick with ESH, barely." - jermleeds
"Going against the flow here and gonna say ESH, like you said."
"It may have been a low blow like you said, even if it was funny for us. I wouldn't say that she's that much of an a**hole either since your son being bullied for a haircut is a very reasonable fear, kids can be ruthless, and 'I just don't like long hair on boys' is just her opinion with an opinion that is not even a**holish." - genasugelan
"I actually think ESH. I won't explain what she did wrong, she should have dropped it.2
"But here is why I think you messed up. You clearly value and try to preserve the relationship, and so does your mom. It must have taken a lot of energy and mental effort on her part to decide to drop the religious conversations around you, out of the value for the relationship with you and her grandkids."
"And you disrespected her effort by turning it into a joke. It is not a joke to her, it's a painful point of difference. In your shoes, I would apologize." - HarmoniumSong
While everyone could admit that the joke was funny and something the OP could be proud of under better circumstances, they were more divided over what this could do to their mother-daughter relationship.
Though some appreciated the humor, others thought religion was unnecessarily brought into the conversation, after the OP's mother had been willing to stop bringing it up.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp