When a family internationally travels with small children, it likely would be useful to have a pair of helping hands along for the trip.
But their involvement should be determined before the trip, not during, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor pinkbear124 found this out the hard way when she offered for her children's nanny mid-trip to go and explore the city on her own.
But when her husband told her that her offer had ruined his plans for the rest of the vacation, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if she was wrong not to discuss her offer to him beforehand.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for giving our nanny time off while on vacation without speaking to my husband about it first?"
The OP offered for her nanny to explore Paris on her own.
"My family went on vacation to Paris (9 days), and we took our children's nanny, Hannah, with us."
"Hannah mentioned how she had never been to Paris before and there were so many places she'd like to see one day if she ever had the chance to come back."
"I told her she could always go see them now as we were already in Paris, but she didn't think the kids would enjoy the places she wanted to go."
"I told her not to worry about the kids and she could have the rest of our time in Paris to herself (for the 5 remaining days)."
The OP's husband wasn't happy when he found out he wasn't included in this decision.
"That same day, my husband told me he had made dinner reservations for the two of us."
"I told him we would have to take the kids because I gave Hanna some time off."
"He asked me why I would do that, and I explained the conversation we had."
"He was upset and told me he wanted to spend some time with me, which was the reason he had told me to ask Hannah to come to Paris with us."
"I told him we would still be spending time together but as a family, which would be good for the children who don't get to spend as much time with their dad as I wish they did."
Their disagreement soured the rest of the trip.
"Even though we had a good time as a family, he was still upset with me by the time we flew home and still insists that I should've spoken to him first, even though he usually leaves things regarding Hannah and the kids up to me."
"He's also suggested the next time we go somewhere, we should leave the children at home with Hannah for a few days, which caused a fight between us as he knows I would never in a million years agree to that."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some thought the husband's reaction was telling.
"Softly YTA. Major YTA for your husband! You didn't communicate with each other during the vacation, no real biggie."
"His getting upset about not having much one-on-one time with you, and copping that attitude all the way back is over the top."
"Did your husband even want kids?! Not saying that to be mean, but you haven't painted him as an involved father..." - Head_Photograph9572
"I have a feeling your husband likes to call himself a dad without actually being one. He seems to work a lot, he doesn't spend any time with your kids, and when you do have 'family time,' your nanny Hannah is always there."
"Am I correct? Generally speaking, I do think you should have talked to him before giving her five days off out of nine but at the same time, I have a feeling you're leaving out A LOT."
"You're NTA, mainly because I suspect that you need a bunch of internet strangers to tell you that there's something wrong with your marriage. Take care OP, I hope you, Hannah, and the kids are going to be okay." - ProgrammerBig6254
"She specifically said in the post that he does not spend much time with the kids. Also, she specifically stated that everything to do with the kids (including the nanny) was her responsibility."
"Therefore, there would be no room to call her a negligent mom for wanting extra help. We had further proof of this because she gave the nanny time off and was perfectly happy to spend all the extra time with her kids for the rest of the vacation."
"Spending time alone with your spouse is great, but having such an angry reaction over having to hang out with your own children on vacation is weird, IMO (in my opinion)." - healthnut626
"NTA. And it's really cool that you like being with your kids. Kids need to know that their parents value their bond with them!!" - CommitteeGullible876
But others thought the OP should have discussed this with her husband first.
"Here's the biggest issue for me. It's unfair to OP's husband that he's negatively affected by her decision which he was left out of."
"This isn't a small thing to lose your planned childcare, that changes EVERYTHING."
"Sorry, but you can't just say, 'Oh, we'll bring the kids along with us,' and assume that'll be fine. A lot of activities that the husband may have planned for just you two aren't going to work as family activities instead." - SANTAAAA__I_know_him
"If it was a reservation type place, it was likely too fancy for children to be appropriate to bring, and also possibly not able to accommodate a change in table size anyway." - april08101989
"Honestly, I think OP is the AH in this. She unilaterally decided something that both of them paid for."
"While I generally think it's awesome she gave Hannah some time off, she should've talked this out with her husband, especially since it was more than half the time of the vacation."
"If OP had said, 'Take the rest of the day off and we will see what else we can do,' I could give her a pass and agree on NAH, but since she just did it like this, she is YTA in my opinion."
"This was a service for both of them that she just 'canceled' basically. If she had her own special masseuse only for her with them and sent them off, that'd be chill."
"Since the nanny does services for both parents, she can't just send her away." - SenpaiRanjid
"Yeahhh, this is definitely a 'duh' moment. I totally agree with some time off but I don't think the husband could have picked a more overtly romantic getaway for OP to not read the room so badly." - Brilliant_Key_9391
"This is full-on 'y'all need couples therapy' s**t."
"She can't seem to communicate to save her life, and he can't seem to put work down and spend time with the kids."
"This seems like her trying to force family time, while he's trying to maintain the status quo."
"They both need to give, and they really really seem to need a mediator for it if her thought process was, 'I'll make him pay for the nanny to come to Paris then give her more than half the vacation off!'" - GodspeedandGoodnight
Some also pointed out that there could have been a way to make everyone happy.
"A really good approach would have been to give her the rest of the day and then discuss with her husband further."
"Frankly, I'm sure Hannah would have been thrilled for just days off and working nights."
"Then the family would get the bonding during the day, the nanny would get to be a tourist on her own, and the parents would get time together at night for dinners or concerts and the like." - Ninjasydney
"When my sister nannied and went on vacation with the family, they had it all worked out beforehand."
"They basically asked her for the 10 hours a day she normally works for them. Some of that, she had the kids to herself, so the parents had alone time, and some of it, she went with the family as an extra set of hands."
"The other 6 or so waking hours, she was free to entertain herself. Days were different whether morning, afternoon, or evening off, but they gave her a schedule, so she could plan her own time." - human060989
"NAH, but you guys should work on communicating better. It seems like your husband wants to spend some alone time with you which is totally fine. It's easy to forget that you're not just parents but also in a romantic relationship."
"You on the other hand want to spend some quality time as a family which is valid, too. And it's absolutely okay to give the nanny some time off as well."
"This needs to be an ongoing conversation on how to manage both expectations. For the future I suggest planning the next day in the evening before." - AngryPsychologist
"So your husband wants to spend time with you. That's something that can work. Spend a couple of nights in a neighboring city at a hotel with your husband while the nanny watches the kids. Carving out date nighttime is healthy in a marriage." - Mountain_Monitor_262
"NAH. It was a nice thing to do for the nanny, but it should've been discussed with your husband so you could coordinate plans and I think a day or two would've been better instead of the rest of the trip."
"If you just wanted a vacation where the kids were with you all the time, that should've been discussed before the trip so you guys could decide whether you even needed to bring her."
"It's awesome for her and I'm sure she appreciates it, but it's a waste of money for you guys, and your husband seems to have had a much different idea of what this vacation was than you did."
"This shouldn't have been a spontaneous decision that you just sprung on him." - Winter-Mongoose
While the subReddit could appreciate the kind gesture the OP had shown her nanny, Hannah, by giving her time to travel and see Paris, they felt this was too big of a decision to make without involving her husband, and perhaps too drastic of a decision, as well.
Paying for a nanny to go on the trip, and then only asking her to work for 4 days out of the total 9 seems questionable. As the subReddit pointed out, she likely would have been happy and still felt appreciated and pampered if she was only given part of each day to explore while still being expected to perform her duties as a nanny.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp