Retirement is something too many people don't think about.
Being healthy and comfortable in the last stages of life is not a guarantee.
So preparing for it is a priority for many.
But retirement and staying alive aren't cheap.
So squabbles over who gets the bill can be an issue.
Redditor Routine-Leg7691 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"AITA for not wanting to pay for FIL's and MIL's retirement home?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"Husband (45 M[ale]) and I (45 F[emale]) moved far from our families."
"We have two kids on the spectrum and have created a good life for ourselves. "
"My family has always been helping financially, while his never gave him/us a dime."
"M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] and F[ather]-I[n]-L[aw] have built two houses, one for them and the other for their younger son (who stayed to live close to them)."
"They also bought a car for him and raised/supported his kids."
"I, on the other hand, did everything myself: raised the kids, homeschooled them, managed all the doctors, maintained the house... so that my husband can build a career."
"With my family's money and his skills, he built a good business."
"And now, 15 years after we left, MIL and FIL (both 65) say that they want to go to a retirement home."
"Besides being too young for this, they are also both very healthy and active."
"They just feel like they'd enjoy being waited on and have somebody else clean/cook/care for them."
"And they are expecting US to pay for this!"
"They could easily sell their house to pay for this, but they want to leave it to their younger son since he's kind of a deadbeat."
"Hubby wants to commit to this (he's sensitive to his mother's wishes), but I am against it."
"The way I see it: they already gave the brother one house and nothing to us, they can afford to pay it from their house's proceedings, but don't want to, and they don't even need to be in a retirement home."
"The fact is, the deadbeat brother will quickly sell their house once they enter that retirement home, so they'd not be able to go back to their house."
"Hence, they'll be our obligation for the next 20 years down the road."
"I am not ready to commit to this since our kids might need a lifetime of (money) support due to being on the spectrum, while bother's kids are fine."
"Also, I don't think this is fair to my parents, who gave us over half a million over the last 15 years without expecting anything in return.'
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA for not wanting to pay for their retirement home?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA and this is a hill to die on."
"You have a husband problem, not an in-law problem."
"Somewhere deep inside, your husband wants the love and attention his brother receives, and your husband may think that this is how he gets it."
"You and your husband need to be on the same page, and he needs to deal with his parents."
"It is not fair to make you the bad guy in this situation." ~ Spiritual_Truth_5152
"Husband needs to understand that paying for their retirement will not make his parents love him."
"Little brother is clearly the golden child."
"From one scapegoat child to another, nothing your husband does will ever be good enough for them."
"It isn't worth putting yourselves in a bad financial position." ~ Sharp-Ticket1950
"OP, please listen to the above comment!"
"Do not entertain this for even a moment!"
"If he wants to do this, then let him know that you will be filing for divorce and asking for repayment of the $500,000 your parents invested in his business as part of the divorce settlement, as well as child support and alimony."
"You and the kids should be his priority, not his parents!!
"They can afford their own retirement!" ~ StandardRaspberry509
"Definitely a hill to die on."
"Tell your husband that if he does this, you will leave and take the kids and will file for divorce."
"Then you will find out if he loves you or just wants to take care of his parents."
"His reaction will tell you all you need to know."
"If he sides with them, I hope you love yourself enough to know that you deserve better than to be his parents' caretakers for the rest of your life, because I suspect that's all he thinks of you." ~ Successful_Voice8542
"This! Also, the parents could live even longer."
'One of my relatives lived to 101, and in the last years of her life, her healthcare costs exceeded $2 million because she developed dementia, also became profoundly physically disabled, and needed 24/7 care from health aides."
"Her entire estate was exhausted, and family members were on the hook for her care."
"OP's MIL and FIL have assets, and those should be used."
"Their lazy son should get a job and pay his own way!"
"NTA times a million!!! "
"There is great advice in this thread, and OP and her husband should consult a financial planner and an estate lawyer to plan for their own retirement and ensure that OP and the autistic children would be financially secure in the event of her husband's death or a divorce." ~ Leading-Knowledge712
"Tell your husband, before he pays for his parents' retirement home, he can pay your parents back the over half a mil he had off of them.
"Once that is paid, then he can pay for his parents' retirement home alongside his divorce." ~ Expensive-Milk1696
"If I were in your place, I'd tell him that he has to pay your parents back every single penny before he gives his parents a penny."
"From how I see it, if he is so financially stable to be paying for his parents, who is paying for their younger son?
"He would be financially stable to pay back everything he took from your parents."
"And I have honestly been in your place multiple times."
"My parents help us every now and then, while his parents never helped us financially, even during our worst. "
"So every time my husband starts talking about how he wants to give money to his parents for one thing or the other, I make it a point of reminding him that if he has so much money to help his parents, we should pay back my parents too." ~ Poetryinsimplethings
"Not just pay back too, pay back first."
"Debts are an obligation before gift-giving can be considered."
"My parents lent us a lot of money when we bought our house."
"I kept a spreadsheet to track payments back because the loan was great, and interest-free, but the money wasn't ours and should be returned to them as soon as we had it."
"That's what a husband should do." ~ SpiritedLettuce6900
"Tell your husband that if he's going to do this, he needs to pay your parents back the money they've given you, plus an extra 50% as interest/a bonus."
"Then, he has to set up a separate account in your name over which you have 100% control and put money into it equivalent to double whatever he has to pay his parents for their lifestyle."
"See what he says then." ~ PiquePole
"If the situation were the same for me and my husband told me he was going to give them money, I would serve him divorce papers."
"Husband is sensitive to his mother's wishes? Tough s**t."
"Your wishes take precedence." ~ Hungry_Goose492
"Yes, I would divorce over this also."
"Once he signs and finances their assisted living, it will never stop."
"If the in-laws never pay a penny, I wouldn't be surprised."
"Some of the fancier self-financed assisted living where I am costs $250K or so buy-in, and then $5 or $6K a month."
"That's for full service, all rides included, restaurant meals with wait staff, cleaning, and different levels of care."
"Memory care is even worse."
"Husband is trading his parents' finances for his family." ~ Dangerous_Ant3260
"NTA. You have a husband problem."
"I would also find a way of securing funds for yourself." ~ Lopsided_Ad2082
"NTA and I'd honestly divorce over a financial issue this big."
"You're looking at $15k+ a month for them."
"If they just wanna be waited on, they can go live at an inclusive resort for cheaper." ~ Comntnmama
"NTA. Time for therapy."
"Your husband is blinded by a desire for praise from his parents."
"They haven't helped at all; they aren't due anything now." ~ International-Fee255
"NTA. Is your husband aware of the cost of moving to a retirement community?"
"I'm in the Northeast, and many communities in my area have a buy-in of $500k that gets placed in escrow."
"Then, monthly fees are $10k+ depending on the level of care."
"That is a monumental financial commitment." ~ United_Reason_3774
"NTA. I'd be noping right out of that situation."
"Your in-laws can take care of themselves just as they have expected you and your husband to do, while they coddle your brother-in-law. Period."
"Or, they can sell their house."
"You said BIL already has a house."
"Why does he need his parents' house too?"
"Stand strong on this one because your husband might cave, and it doesn't sound like his parents are worth your time or money." ~ EfficientSociety73
"NTA. Your husband needs therapy to start to understand his mum is taking advantage and that his brother is the favorite." ~ Mundane-Run6179
"NTA. Tell your husband you won't support any of it until he gives back all the money your parents gave him for his business."
"And keep an eye on your finances just in case he signs something behind your back." ~ Skipper_2024
"NTA. They're not too young to move to a retirement community, but those places are expensive."
"They need to sell their home to fund it."
"You have your own retirement and possibly care for your children in the future to worry about." ~ yeahipostedthat
Reddit is 1000% with you, OP.
Your in-laws have the money.
They can take care of themselves.
This is extraordinarily selfish behavior on their part.
Like others said... 'This is a hill to die on!'
Good Luck!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp