Even in the most close knit of families, there are bound to be fundamental differences between members.
Ideally, families can learn to accept these differences with no love lost, but sometimes these differences can lead to tension, if not estrangement, within families.
The son of Redditor Lim-the-Bunny found himself at odds with members of his distant family after coming out.
But things got even closer to home when his brother made a bigoted remark regarding his new relationship, and felt hurt that his father didn't come to his defense.
Having second thoughts about his behavior, the original poster (OP), took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole?" (AITA), asking fellow Redditors:
"AITA for not picking a side when my two sons argue?"
The OP first gave readers a bit of insight about his son's coming out, and how it affected the family.
"My son Ben came out as bisexual a couple years ago."
"Most of our family accepted him."
"Although I know he disliked some of our actions when he came out (we are still in contact with familiars or friends that didn't accept him), we tried to be as supportive as we could."
Ben's situation with his family became even more delicate after he entered a new relationship, causing tension within the immediate family.
"And a bit after he came out he introduced us to his boyfriend."
He was a really sweet guy and clearly loved our son."
"However about a year ago some rumors, apparently spread by my other son James, said that he used to be a woman."
"We didn't believe it but eventually Ben confirmed that his boyfriend was trans, and I admit it was quite shocking and hard to process."
"This also kinda ruined the relationship between our sons."
Things came to a head, however, at a recent family dinner, which led Ben to wonder how much his father did, in fact, support him.
"Now to the problem itself."
"Yesterday we decided to have a small gathering with the four of us ( me, my wife and our two sons )."
"We ate a delicious meal, we talked a lot, in general we were having a good time."
"I could tell that there was some tension between our sons but I thought that they could handle it."
"Then I decided to ask Ben 'what is [his boyfriend] doing now?', to which James replied 'yeah, what is she doing?'."
"This immediately angered Ben, so they started insulting each other."
"Luckily I managed to change the subject and tell them to calm down before they started an actual fight."
"After James left, Ben confronted me about this."
"He was angry that I didn't 'defend him or at least say something to James'."
"Now, I agree that what James said was rude, but it was Ben who insulted his brother and worsened the situation."
"So I don't think it would have been right for me to defend or pick a side."
"But he didn't see it that way, he told me that 'either you do something or I won't visit again'.
"Which hurts me a lot."
"Since then I have not talked to either of them directly, but apparently the rest of our family is choosing sides."
"Ben is still very angry at me, and although I understand why he was angry at his brother I think he is being unreasonable with me."
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where the believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
The Reddit community unanimously took Ben's side in this matter, deciding the OP's behavior unquestionably made him the a**hole in this situation.
Just about everyone was shocked that the OP chose to ignore the fact that James made a bigoted remark towards Ben's boyfriend, as well as his decision to stay in contact with the family members who did not support Ben after his coming out.
"YTA."
"This isn't arguing, this is one son bullying the other."
"What a dreadful parent you are in not supporting your son."
"By not shutting down your bully son, you are tacitly agreeing with him and creating a hostile environment for your other son."
"WRT staying in contact with family that doesn't support your son… YTA again."
"When my kid came out as trans and gay, I refused to have anything to do with family that wouldn't treat my child with respect."
"I wanted my kids to feel supported and safe."-DogLvrinVA.
"YTA."
"As the parent of a bisexual son (or a decent human being), how can you condone the homophobic/transphobic behavior from his brother?"
"If you say that you accept Ben for who he is, that means you need to be an ally and shut down the kind of hateful speech coming from his brother."
"Claiming neutrality always sides with the oppressor, so Ben knows now that you won't defend or support his relationship or his partner."
"I don't blame him for threatening to cut contact."
"Be better."- FoxBun_17.
"YTA, your son, James, is homophobic and transphobic."
"He is spreading rumors and trying to rile people up against Ben."
"You are upset that Ben is directly confronting James, but defending against bigoted attacks against your partner is something anyone should do."
"You not only didn't stay out of it, but you chastised Ben for defending himself and his boyfriend."
"You can't have it both ways."
"Either stop your sons from attacking each other or don't."-PurrPurrVoidkittens.
"YTA."
"That wasn't an argument that was one son being a transphobic, homophobic asshole and the other one trying to defend his partner."
"Also if this isn't clear to you I'll say it."
"Ben's partner is a man. A guy. A dude."
"Your son is dating another man."
"What is in HIS pants is none of your business."
"It's none of James' business."
"It's nobodies business so mind yours. "
"You should have drawn the line when your son outed someone without their permission."
"You should have drawn the line when he misgendered his brother's partner."
"You should have drawn the line when people refused to accept YOUR son."
"But you didn't and I don't blame Ben for never wanting to speak to you again."
"You've shown him the kind of person you are."
"I hope, and I say this with all the love in my heart, he never speaks to you or his sh*tty brother ever again."-clovrfestt.
'James isn't 'rude' he's transphobic and homophobic.'
'YTA.'
'Raise your son better."- khalvvsi
"As a mother of a gay son, I can see why Ben is upset."
"Firstly, his brother is being homophonic and transphobic."
"Secondly, you then placed the blame on Ben by saying 'well you insulted him too'."
"Do you know how much anger, hatred and downright rudeness Ben receives?"
"He's looking for support. Not blame passing."
"It is not easy for anyone to come out, especially to family."
"It's actually one of the bravest things Ben will ever do."
"When your child comes out to you, it can be very hard to accept."
"This is not life you envisioned for your child."
"HOWEVER, it is not your life. It's theirs."
"I do not blame Ben for not wanting to visit anymore if this is what he's going to face."
"You don't need to 'pick a side' you can love and support each child equally, but you're not doing that."
"By staying silent is enabling the harasser."
"You're thinking of how this hurts you, what about Ben?"
"What did he do to deserve such hatred from his brother? "
"He did nothing."
"My own mother will not have anything to do with my son because he is gay."
"She's a Bible thumping, sin is sin type Christian woman."
"And the things she said to him 'in jest' I will not accept from anyone."
"Do better."-Wolf-Pack85.
No one bought the OP's "not wanting to take sides" excuse either, as it seemed abundantly clear to them that James was in the wrong, with some even believing that by "not taking sides", the OP clearly took James' side.
"YTA."
"Desmond Tutu said it better than I could."
"'If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.'"
"'If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.'"
"Not picking sides is when there is no right side."
"Which is better, red or blue?"
"There is no right answer."
"Being transphobic or racist or whatever does NOT deserve any support whatsoever."-NotHisRealName.
"YTA and a terrible parent."
"You picked a side."
"The homophobic side."
"And you act like you think you're neutral."
"Stop lying to yourself."- parishilton2.
"YTA."
"You did choose a side."
"You know James did it to upset Ben, and by letting it happen under your roof, you condone the activity."- Any-Pay-974.
"YTA."
"From your own description, this is just the latest in a long-standing pattern of you decidedly NOT supporting Ben."
"And while I normally think parents should avoid choosing sides when their children have a disagreement, this wasn't just a disagreement - James is being a transphobic JERK who is knowingly causing pain to Ben and his boyfriend."
"When one of your kids is being deliberately cruel, you cannot just 'stay neutral'."-MindDeep2823.
It's hard not to be surprised by the OP's decision to ignore James' behavior towards Ben's boyfriend.
Particularly as he remarked earlier how touched he was by how much he clearly loved James.
Here's hoping that the OP will see how badly he mishandled this situation, and won't tolerate that sort of behavior from James, or anyone else in their extended family, ever again.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp