It is the top priority of all divorced parents to make sure their children are healthy and well cared for.
However, after getting divorced, some parents might choose to implement some parenting decisions that their former spouses previously didn't approve of.
Most of the time, this proves not to be much of an issue, after all, as the saying goes, "their house their rules".
Others, however, believe that even when living apart, all major parenting decisions should still be made together.
So when one parent makes a decision regarding their child without consulting the other first, it does not go over well.
Redditor ThrowRA-Vegan876 initially partook in one of their ex-wife's lifestyle choices and agreed to raise their three children this way.
Following their divorce, however, the original poster (OP) slowly stopped living this way.
When he eventually began allowing their children to break away from this lifestyle as well, the OP's ex-wife made her displeasure with this decision fully apparent.
Wondering if they were out of line, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where he asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for breaking my children's vegan diet imposed on them by my ex?"
The OP explained why their ex-wife was furious with a recent parenting decision made without them:
"I was with my ex 'Venus' for over 10 years, from when I was 15 until I was almost 26."
"I am currently 31."
"Venus was raised a vegan and has never (to my knowledge) eaten meat or any animal product."
"While we were together, we had 3 boys, "Mercury' (11, M[ale]), 'Jupiter', (9, M[ale]), and 'Mars' (7, M[ale])."
"When I first got into the relationship with Venus, I started to follow the vegan diet because she wanted me to, and I've mostly followed it even after we broke up, mainly out of habit."
"During this time, I had to be very careful with what I ate to ensure I got the proper nutrients, and my food bill every month was sky-high."
"I also had a lot of issues with depression and anxiety."
"About 3 months ago, I slowly started to reintroduce meat into my diet, and since then, I've felt so much better."
"I haven't had to buy loads of vitamins or carefully plan my diet to ensure I got every amino acid or avoided deficiencies, and my food bill dropped."
"I also started doing research into kids who are raised vegan and found some things that made me nervous."
"I read that vegan kids can sometimes be shorter and might need supplements for things like B12, calcium, and iron if they aren't getting everything they need from their diet."
"None of my boys have started puberty yet, which might be okay, but since I hit puberty at around 9, it got me worried about Mercury."
"They're also all in about the 5th-15th percentile for height and weight, which made me want to check in with the doctor, which also made me very concerned after I learnt that their vegan diet could have impacted this."
"I was never a short kid, but idk I think I just assumed they were just short for their age."
"When I brought my concerns to our GP, he recommended introducing meat and animal products into their diets first to see if it would help with growth before considering other options."
"So, following that advice, 6 weeks ago I decided to slowly introduce animal products into their diets whenever they had their time with me, but it has been slow."
"I don't want to introduce it too fast and I gave them the choice with all the information I had and with what the doctor said."
"I informed Venus about this and she was furious with me, saying how I'm just doing it to be vindictive to her, when I'm not."
"And that if I don't stop she is going to go back to family court and get the Child Arrangements Order changed so she has full custody of the boys and I only get visitation."
"I told her that this was recommended by their GP and she said I had 'no right in going to the GP without her', when that is not true, it was during my time with them I am entitled to do whatever I want."
"She's calling me cruel and she's been telling our boys that they should refuse to eat any animal products and to say I'm forcing them."
"When this isn't true and every time they've been over they've loved trying new foods like real milk, eggs, etc."
"some they don't like which is fair."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
With some exceptions, the Reddit community generally agreed that the OP was not the a**Hole for feeding their children meat.
Some agreed that the OP was merely thinking of the health and well-being of his children, which their ex-wife should not only have accepted but appreciated.
"'She said I had 'no right in going to the GP without her'."
"I'm curious if she involves you in all medical visits during her time."
"'Right' implies a legal issue, what does your custody agreement say about medical stuff?"
"NTA."
"I'd recommend getting medical documentation for the inevitable custody battle that's coming your way."
"It's weird af that only she gets to decide their diet and I really can't see any court enforcing her diet onto others."- Remote-Passenger7880
"I don't know where you live, but you might want to check on your custody agreement, and see what options you have."
'It could be useful to get a full blood panel done on the kids."
"Yes, you have to be really deliberate about getting everything you need if you're vegan."
"It's possible, but complicated."
"And eating meat doesn't guarantee you're getting everything either."
'It would be good to know whether the kids have deficiencies."
"NTA."- hubertburnette
"NTA."
"They're your children too."
"You're doing it in consultation with a medical professional and allowing your children to choose."- PerhapsTheFinalOne
"NTA."
"She's off her rocker if she thinks a judge will grant her full custody to feed her underweight children a vegan diet against the advice of their pediatrician."
"No judge will force a family to adhere to one parent's diet on the other parent's time UNLESS there are serious medical issues involved."
"Choose to be vegan- as an adult, with the finances and ability to ensure you're getting a balanced diet."
"It is extremely hard to feed growing and pubescent kids a vegan diet alone."
"It IS expensive, it IS difficult to ensure all needs are met, and it IS actually just as costly environmentally when you consider the amount of global shipping and third world poverty of food/spice items that are not local."
"The HEALTHIEST for the environment is to eat a completely local diet like indigenous people all around the world do."
'The HEALTHIEST diet for a human is what works with their body."
"Diet is not a one size fits all and she's damaging her kids by her attitude."
"Keep the receipts!"
"Track their diet and their growth."
"Get bloodwork done and add in thyroid and vitamin D which are usually separate lab tests."
"Keep track of their energy levels and how they're feeling."- Jmfroggie
Others, however felt that this was a major parenting decision the OP should have consulted their ex about, even if his intentions were honorable.
"I have to go with YTA, not because you want to give your kids meat, but because you got a pretty serious diagnosis and large lifestyle change recommendations from a doctor and decided to implement them on your own."
"Were you really just planning on sneaking them meat every other week when you had them in your custody?"
"As you know you shouldn't just shove a bunch of meat at someone who has been eating vegan as that can cause problems too."
"And this shouldn't be a one parent only treatment."
"You should have talked with yer ex immediately and if she was super resistant then you get the lawyer involved with the doctors recommendations."- xela2004
"There are cultures in Asia living for generations from vegetarian and vegan diets but thank God most Reddit users know better and most specialists in nutrition."
"Some doctors like veganism, some dislike it, but it seems to me this is not the best way to manage kids core education."
"You both need to agree on this because you'll have many topics like this in the future."
"YTA."- Negative_Comfort6848
It seems clear that the OP was putting the health and safety of his children first and foremost.
However, doing it without speaking to his wife first may have been a mistake.
As had they both spoken to the doctor about this matter, the OP's wife may have gone on board.
As at the end of the day, all parents care about is that their children are safe and healthy, and will do whatever it takes to ensure things stay that way.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp