As much as it might be nice to imagine families always being able to come together and work things out, sometimes family dynamics can be ugly.
This is especially true where there is divorce involved, cringed the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Paulozoo went through an ugly divorce with his wife, with whom he shared custody of their three teen children. His ex-wife had since remarried and had two teen stepchildren.
When she repeatedly showed favor for her stepchildren and even stole items from the Original Poster (OP) and their biological children, he decided to make a statement by calling the police.
He asked the sub:
"AITAH for reporting my ex-wife and her husband to the police for stealing my property?"
The OP and his ex-wife shared custody of their three teens, while his ex also had two teen stepkids.
"My ex-wife (39 Female) and I (41 Male) share custody of our three children (16, 14, and 12) equally, and no child support is paid."
"Our marriage didn't end on the best of terms, and we communicate through an app only when required to for the sake of the kids."
"She has since remarried and has a 15-year-old stepchild and a 13-year-old stepchild. Her husband and I do not speak."
The OP's ex-wife repeatedly stole items from him and from their children.
"We've had some issues with my ex keeping property that is mine if the kids have it on her time. It started with a cell phone. I gave our eldest my old phone when one of my ex-wife's stepkids broke his phone."
"My ex then told our oldest that they had to keep it at her house, and she refused to return it, even when I went over there and asked. I was told she had every right to confiscate it. I followed up with an email, and she told me to get over it, and that she would not hand it over."
"The next time our daughter (14) brought some of my tools into school with her for an assignment, but it was a custody exchange day, so she left my house but went home to her mom's. My ex believed it wasn't appropriate for her to have them, so she took them and refused to return them to me. Again, I got a written exchange as proof."
"A judge has let her get away with this in the past. We were back in court six months ago over similar-ish issues. Not with the stealing, but the issues with what our kids were expected to tolerate over there, and the judge insisted custody remain the same."
"Their complaint is that she allows unfair things to happen to them, and there's nothing they can do about it. Like the phone being broken by the step-siblings, and they've ruined other stuff too. My ex-wife just expects them to deal, which has fractured her relationship with our kids a lot."
But the third time was the final straw for the OP.
"This last time was with our youngest. I let him use an old iPod for a class assignment on recent old tech gadgets. Apparently, her 13-year-old stepchild had the same assignment on a different day, and she decided both should get to use it."
"I told her it was my property and she had to return it, got another email exchange, and then I contacted the police."
"My ex gave the stuff back, but she lost her mind over me getting the police involved for 'petty stuff.'"
"She said I could have demanded it back after her stepkid used the iPod, and I told her she wasn't giving any of it back, and what I give for my kids is NOT for her stepkids."
"She brought up how more serious trouble could have come from it, and I told her it would be deserved because you cannot steal someone else's property and get away with it."
"She told me it was just my spiteful side emerging because none of it was a big deal, or I never would have given them to my kids, which I think is the dumbest argument."
"The phone was given because her stepkids broke our eldest child's phone, and she wasn't about to replace it. Our daughter needed tools for school, and it was only for school, and she wanted to return them to me, but her mom said no. Then the iPod was just for our youngest."
"I'm not here to help her stepkids in any way. My ex and her husband and their mom, if she's still in the picture, can do that."
"I hope that she at least thinks twice before doing this again. But at least she's warned if she tries something like this again."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some encouraged the OP to keep evidence in case the police needed to be contacted again.
"OP, tell her, 'You stole my stuff. I asked for it back. You said no. I went to the police, and they came and got it because they didn't think it was petty, you broke the law, and this is what the police are for. If you disagree with them, the appropriate person to argue with is the judge.'" - hitbythebus
"Now she knows how you prove ownership of what she steals, so she's going to avoid leaving a text trail."
"Start keeping receipts in other ways, like actual receipts, taking photos of things before you give them to your kids, or videos of you stating ownership and your intention with the item as you hand it over." - fmlwhateven
"Anything metallic you loan your kids, like tools, you can engrave your name on to. Get an engraver or see if there's someone who offers that service. Very strange behavior on your wife's part. She's not doing those stepkids any favors." - Electrical_Welder205
"He could still just send the messages through the app. Like, 'Hey, our oldest kid has my old phone, just wanted to let you know that I would like it back when he comes home.'"
"You can even make it less aggressive and say, 'Hey, I let our daughter take tools to school for a project, can you make sure she brings them home with her?'"
"The documentation is there, even if she doesn't reply." - FullMooseParty
"Your ex is the one being petty, difficult, and immature about the whole situation. If she had not taken the items in the first place and refused to return them, the police wouldn't need to intervene."
"Also, she stated in the email that she wasn't returning them, but then tells you that you could have demanded them back after the police intervened?"
"As a 39-year-old woman, she is behaving like a teenage 'Mean girl.' Hopefully she learned her lesson and will not try to pull these stunts again in the future." - SnooJokes5955
Others agreed and also urged the OP to explore a possible custody change and child support.
"Teaching kids to steal isn't a good thing. If she's stupid enough to do it again. Something tells me she is, report it, then have a talk to your lawyer about changing that 50/50 to 80/20 in your favor, or talk to you kids and ask them if they still want to see her anymore."
"They are all at the age where they can choose. If you think about it, she basically stole from them items they borrowed from you, so she stole items from them, then left them on the hook for items that if they had borrowed from someone else it would have been on them, and by virtue you that would have had to replace them."
"No mother of the year awards for her." - Misa7_2006
"NTA! That phone incident makes me wonder how often her hatred for you is directed towards your kids. Talk to your kids, and make sure she isn't treating them badly!" - IAteAnotherVeganBrgr
"You need to go back to court. It's not in the children's interest to be mistreated at the other parent's new house." - Playful_Site_2714
"She is alienating her children. The youngest is almost old enough, 13 in many places, to tell the judge that he wants to stop or reduce visits to mom and steps. The older two are probably waiting so that they can do it together, and ask the oldest alone."
"If they have been keeping notes, give them to the judge at the same time you give yours, each person's notes separately." - Freebirde777
"I would document these incidents and consider revisiting custody. I know this probably won't be enough for a significant change, but your kids are at an age where they get more of a say in where they live." - Fatality_of_Choice
Some were disgusted that the kids were being treated this way and anticipated them going no contact with their mother as soon as they were able to.
"If it wasn't a big deal, the cops wouldn't have agreed to intervene. She's teaching her stepkids that this type of behavior is okay."
"Along with putting their kids right in the middle of all this SUPER uncomfortable bulls**t... I've been that kid in the middle (before there were parenting apps), and it is really not cool to do that to your kids."
"These kids obviously know what their mom is up to. OP refers to the daughter asking to return the tools and her mom saying no, and it sounds like OP at that point took it back to the messaging app."
"I very much hope most of this stays on the app, away from the kids, because it can really cause a lot of inner turbulence feeling like you can't make either of your parents happy if they're both telling you different things you have to do to make things 'right.'" - mf0723
"The ex is gonna end up making the kids resent her if she's taking their things and giving it to the step kids or letting the step kids take things that aren't without punishment. Then it's gonna be 'Boohoo, my ex turned my kids against me!! I was the perfect mom, how could my own kids treat me like this?!'" - AcaliahWolfsong
"My stepdad has a double standard. I would get my a** beat with a wooden board for not giving the dogs water, but my brother can do no chores at all and get given his gaming controllers back if my mom takes them. I'm just 10 years older, so I always knew it wasn't my brother's fault nor my mom's."
"She just married an a**hole, and with the nature of working 12-hour night shifts, she wasn't around to really see just how badly he treated me. Now she's in therapy and trying to fix her marriage, while he says there are absolutely no issues and he's happy with how things are."
"I just hope she gives up soon so she can actually be happy for once. This is absolutely in the OP's ex-wife's future, though I don't see her trying to work on ANYTHING like my mom is, unless serious and surprising growth happens. She's going to lose her first kids to this." - piggy_trot
The subReddit applauded the OP for his actions and encouraged him to continue keeping a record of what was going on so that his children could have the best living situation possible.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp