Content Warning: Child loss
Especially recently, parents seem to have this unique protectiveness of baby names, demanding that the people around them not use the same name or anything similar to it after they've used it for their child.
While this might seem overbearing, there arguably are some situations when it might be best to choose a different name, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor ThrowRAsadandalone1 and her husband had recently lost their baby right after she was born, and only three months later, they were still grieving.
Shortly thereafter, her sister-in-law not only announced she was pregnant, but she demanded that the Original Poster (OP) "get over" her grief and stole her late baby's name for her own.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for refusing to go to my SIL's baby shower after she refused to support me when I had a stillbirth and stole my daughter's name?"
The OP and her husband recently went through a terrible tragedy.
"Three months ago, I (28 Female) gave birth to my angel baby, whom I was going to name Siobhan."
"My husband, Dylan (30 Male), and I are still grieving her loss. We lost her due to preterm premature rupture of membranes, and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her."
"My mother is Irish and I was going to name my baby after my great auntie. We were so happy, and now we are devastated."
"My family rallied around us and so did Dylan's parents, but his sister was a different story. She has been helping Dylan, but has told me I need to 'get over it,' 'it' being the loss of our daughter."
The OP's sister-in-law (SIL) continued to be inconsiderate of her feelings.
"My Husband's sister, Claire (34 Female), just announced her pregnancy at 20 weeks and had her gender reveal on Instagram."
"I'm happy for her, but sad at the same time because I never got to meet my daughter."
"She announced she was going to have a baby shower and sent out invitations last week. When we received the invitation, it said, 'Help us welcome our baby, Siobhan!'"
"I can admit I cried looking at the invitation. Claire and my husband's family have no connection to Ireland or the name Siobhan."
"When my husband asked her why she chose the name, Claire said it sounded pretty and because we weren't able to use it she was going to take it first, and to clarify, no, she is not naming her baby after my daughter."
The OP felt unable to show support for her SIL, who took offense to the news.
"As much as I want to feel happy for Claire, I just can't. It feels like she's rubbing the fact that my baby is dead in my face."
"I RSVPd no to the invite. She called me on my private number and chewed me out for 'being a sour b***h' and 'not being happy for her' and being 'jealous over nothing.'"
"I feel like I should be happy for her but I just can't. I just want my baby girl, my Siobhan."
"I have her footprints framed in my room and her ashes in a tiny urn. It didn't hit me hard until we went shopping for urns and caskets. They're so small."
"Dylan chose Siobhan's name from a list of family names I offered. He's a wreck. Her name means 'gracious gift,' and she was going to be our first child after infertility and several miscarriages. She was going to be my rainbow baby and now she's my angel."
"My MIL (Mother-in-Law) called me after the invites went out. They're still going to go but she said she will try to convince Claire to change her baby's name. She's very upset and my FIL (Father-in-Law) said he is disappointed in Claire."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some were appalled by the sister-in-law's behavior.
"A dear family friend's daughter gave birth to a beautiful daughter who was at rest. She was 100% perfect looking, she was one week from her scheduled c-section, and she was kicking and active the day before. It makes no sense from the outside."
"My heart broke for her and her husband (there's been an autopsy but I haven't asked about the result, of course). I can't even imagine one of her sisters or a SIL naming their baby the same name!"
"Nowadays, you can get a birth certificate and death certificate for a baby born at rest so it's not even a hypothetical name. It's her legit name. OP's SIL is an absolutely horrible excuse for a human being, never mind a relative! I'd never wish child loss on someone but if SIL had any inkling of how it feels, I'd like to believe she'd behave differently. I'm so sorry for OP's profound loss." - geckotatgirl
"I am so so sorry for your loss. Something that you wrote stands out to me: 'She picked it first because you didn't get to use it.' But you did use it. You have. You are the mother to a baby and that baby girl is called Siobhan."
"Tragically, Siobhan died. That is heartbreaking and again I am so sorry for your loss. But you are a mother. Mother to Siobhan. Siobhan IS your daughter. You 'were' not going to name her, you did."
"Your SIL is incredibly cruel. I have no words. But please don't feel like your Siobhan hasn't got a name. She has. And you are her mother. I am so so sorry you can't hold her or hug her, but I do hope in the future you can write, 'I have a daughter who tragically died. Her name IS Siobhan.'" - Pergamon_
"NTA. I am horrified. Your sister-in-law is cruel for telling you to get over it and downright nasty for proceeding to name her child after the one you lost. Are your husband's parents condoning this and her treatment of you? I am not usually one to recommend going 'no contact' with your in-laws but I think this situation more than merits it."
"I am so, so sorry for your loss. Your baby is and always will be Siobhan. It's a beautiful name for an angel." - s**tshowrodeo
"You have used the name, you have a daughter named Siobhan who you could not hold very long in your physical arms, but she will forever be your daughter. Your daughter is named Siobhan. You used the name first, you are still using her name and she will forever be Siobhan."
"I am so sorry you did not get to have her with you much, but for the time you carried her lovingly. Your SIL is insane and she can say whatever she wants but she will be naming her own daughter with her cousin's name, who did not survive just a few months before… there is no way around it."
"Your husband and you have a daughter named Siobhan, she is just not here anymore. I hope your husband can find in his heart to not despise his sister forever and just passive-aggressive tell her every time that he is glad your daughter's name is spoken up forever in remembrance when the little cousin is called on."
"I hope you can tell your SIL that she is honoring Siobhan's life for doing this. I bet your SIL will be mad as h**l. I hope your in-laws are backing you up. May you keep peace in your heart for your daughter forever. (I hate your SIL.)" - thefrenchphanie
"This is so disgusting and vile. I wouldn't even do this to my worst enemy let alone my brother's wife!! Even if she dislikes you, does she connect the dots that it was her BROTHER'S baby too?"
"I'm enraged for you. Honestly, I feel like you should post the invitation side by side with a memorial photo of your angel baby or hospital bill and tell the truth about what SIL did. That the name is Irish, you named your baby after your family and your baby passed away, and then SIL decided to use the same name (with no prior connection to the name or Ireland) and told you to get over it and called you a 'sour b***h' less than three months after your baby died."
"Yes, you don't own the name but the pain of seeing/hearing a baby called that within your own family is devastating. And then let karma do its thing. I'm sure your family and friends will have your back and rightfully put SIL in her place and hopefully the backlash will make her choose another name."
"NTA if I were your husband I would immediately cut my sister out of my life. No questions, no conversation about it." - Specialist_Point1980
Others agreed and suggested "killing" the sister-in-law with kindness.
"NTA. Here's how I'd address this:"
"Send out an email to the ENTIRE family about how touched you are that your SIL chose to honor you by naming her daughter after her late cousin. Make it sound positive as f**k. Talk about how much joy you feel knowing your child meant SO MUCH to your SIL that she would name her baby after your daughter."
"Talk about how knowing your niece will carry your daughter's name with her, for her entire life, makes you and your husband feel so touched by the obvious love SIL and her husband have for you and your daughter."
"And then just stick with this narrative, no matter what. You meet a friend of SIL? Tell them how much you love that SIL named her child after your daughter. Mention it to every person who stands still long enough to hear it."
"Yes, it may be painful to do… but own your daughter's name. And make sure everyone knows it was your daughter's name in a way that SIL cannot complain about without looking like a total b***h. And it will absolutely p**s SIL the f**k off." - HappyTrifler
"In addition send every single person at the Baby shower a candle and give sis-in-law one which is personalized with the name Siobhan on it."
"Ask everyone to hold a minute's silence and solemnly light the candle and say how you think it will be lovely to be able to honor your daughter through Siobhan Number Two."
"Bring out a second set of baby shower cupcakes with shamrocks."
"Say that every time that Siobhan number two reaches a milestone, you can light the candles and honor your daughter through her, too."
"The thought of her own daughter having to have a minute of silence at every birthday might push her over the edge."
"(And the objective here is NOT to literally do this forever and punish your SIL's kid, but to irk your SIL out so bad now, that she changes the name she'll use.)" - practicallyperfectuk
"Get ahead of her. She either has to go with it so she doesn't look terrible or she'll quickly change the name and she'll probably try to do it quietly since she won't want to look bad for no longer 'honoring' her niece." - Silaquix
"Ummm… Someone else posted about being 'so honored' that the baby was being named in remembrance of your baby, and I am in love with this idea, and honestly, you might only have to gush over this a couple of times because it could very well ruin the idea of her using the name."
"Babies that passed away are special and have a huge impact on us. The only way anyone should use her name is if it's to honor her and with your permission."
"Sounds like your little angel has found a way to point out a dangerous cruel person in your life so you can keep her politely at arm's length. Girl, she will NEVER be your friend. Remember this. And thank baby angel Siobhan for showing you the light."
"Hang in there. Happiness is coming your way." - EyeRollingNow
The subReddit was disgusted by the sister-in-law's behavior and selfishness, not only at using a name that she had no familial ties to but for being so disrespectful and hateful toward her own brother's and sister-in-law's grief.
Hopefully, 'killing' Claire with kindness would be enough to change her mind, but if not, it seemed the last Redditor was right: all of this simply exposed Claire for who she really was, in part a person that the OP didn't need in her life.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp