Nothing sparks family drama quite like weddings and funerals. And in one woman on Reddit's case, it was a combination of the two that set things off.
She wasn't okay with her future brother-in-law's choice to propose to her sister on their family trip to spread their recently passed father's ashes.
But when she said so it sparked major drama. So, she went to the AITA (Am I The A**hole) subReddit for perspective on how she handled it.
The Original Poster (OP) asked:
"AITA for ruining my sister's boyfriends plan to propose on our family trip to spread my dads ashes?"
She explained:
"My (28f[emale]) sister (38f[emale]) has been absolutely livid with me and has been distant ever since she found out that I was adamantly against that her boyfriend (41m[ale]) is planning to propose on our family trip to Ireland to spread my dads ashes.
"It happening on this trip bothers me for a number of reasons. 1) this trip is about my dad. His final wishes were to have his ashes spread in Ireland and we are doing it over the 1 year memorial."
"2) my mom is paying for the whole trip for everyone including the bf. First class international flights, 5 star stay for a week."
"I feel like he's capitalizing on this free trip to make it 'special' when he really just can't afford to take her to Ireland on his own dime so he's doing it on my moms."
"3) who wants their engagement date around the date of their dads death? 4) i feel like this is akin to proposing at a funeral. Who does that!!!"
"I didn't really intend for her to find out how I feel about it."
"I just wanted to vent to some other family members and then work through my own feelings so that the proposal is just a blip on the trip and we can go back to remembering my dad."
"Unfortunately everyone is apparently a loud mouth."
"I sent her an apology text telling her how sorry I am and that I love her and just want her to be happy."
"But now she's saying I made her bf feel 'unwelcome' in the family and that she doesn't want it to happen anymore because I ruined it."
"But I honestly don't care, he shouldn't be proposing on this trip. I think it's inappropriate. AITA?"
OP then returned to the post to add a bit more context.
"EDIT: Bf initially asked me for help with the proposal. I felt uneasy about it and told my mom who felt the same as I did."
"Turns out the bf told my sister anyway his plans so there goes the surprise."
"DOUBLE EDIT: I know the first class/5 star comment is a little polarizing but we sold one of my dads possessions to cover the cost of the trip for everyone and to make it as nice as we could given the circumstance …"
People on Reddit were then asked to judge who was in the wrong in this situation based on the following categories:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
And for the most part they all agreed with OP that proposing on an ash-spreading trip was pretty inappropriate.
"NTA-You are absolutely correct. No one should be proposing on a trip like this." --GothPenguin
"In my eyes it could possibly be OK depending on the family but what made OP NTA and the boyfriend TA is that it makes their mom uncomfortable."
"He should have asked her first. She pays for everyone on this trip to honor her husband wish and the boyfriend wanted to hijack it and make it about them a fun romantic weekend and not a memorial as it was planned." --National-Platypus144
"Also, mom (who is paying for everything) also doesn't feel comfortable with the bf's plans! If the person paying for the trip disapproves, don't do it!" --saucynoodlelover
"I wonder what he plans... Hide the ring in the ashes and when they want to spread them and find the ring he propose?"
"This trip is about the death of the father and the final goodbye and to make it about him / the engagement is just disgusting."
"Would he propose on a funeral if it is in another country? Well, he would maybe..."
"NTA" --EvilFinch
"Her boyfriend is definitely riding on the coattails of your dads special farewell event. It would put a pretty sour taste in my mouth too."
"Instead of her bf providing his own special event for his proposal he's banking on the mother's dime to provide the gorgeous accommodations."
"It's cheap and gross to do. Nta" --Escape_Overlander
"Yep. Tacky, even without the financial tailgating. He's taking attention off the very important purpose of the trip. NTA" --Only-Ingenuity7889
"NTA"
"You didn't tell her. You didn't tell her boyfriend. You planned on letting it happen, while telling other people in the family that you thought it was inappropriate and disrespectful."
"Somebody you told is the a-hole here. Somebody you told let your sister and her boyfriend know. They are the one(s) responsible for the hurt feelings here." --Salt-Breath-8827
"NTA"
"This is as close to proposing during a funeral that you can get and almost as bad as proposing at some else's wedding."
"The trip is to accompany your mom in fulfilling your dad's final wish, and it's a beautiful thing that she is bringing everyone to share in that."
"The trip should be about remembering and memorializing your father and being a family." --tatersprout
"NTA I was at the yahrzeit (multi-day Jewish wake) of a friend's parent and that friend's boyfriend pulled me aside as someone really close to her to ask if I'd help him plan a way to propose the following night" --Obviousarracu
"Sure, they are going somewhere really beautiful and the trip is most likely going to be a once in a lifetime experience."
"But it's not some random family vacation it's a memorial trip, and to try and turn it in to a engagement celebration is honestly super disrespectful." --Zupergreen
"Yup! And as an Irish person in Ireland, we do death well, and they will be treated kindly as people who are mourning when they are here if they tell people why they're here."
"It would be a whiplash inducing tonal shift for the boyfriend to propose! Wildly inappropriate! Like, breathtakingly egotistical... Scattering ashes is a sombre affair."
"Or maybe not, depending on the deceased and their loved ones, that's fair. But you don't make it about you, someone tangentially related, rather than the deceased!" --Anxious_Reporter_601
"NTA - Who da fu*k thinks a trip to spread someone's ashes is an appropriate time for a proposal?" --notlucyintheskye
"NTA."
"'Hey, baby, I know we're here to honor your father on the one-year anniversary of his passing, and allow him to find eternal rest in this beautiful country.'"
"'Also, totally chill of your mom to pay for us all to come here, since I couldn't afford it. So, anyway, will you marry me?'"
"...OP, look, if your sister might actually be happy about getting a proposal at such a thoughtless time, then I think those two deserve each other."
"He could literally have chosen another date or time. This is also like proposing right when someone is giving birth." --YarnAndMetal
"Nailed it!!! As a man he should take his woman on a trip just the two of them and make it special if that's how he wants to propose."
"He doesn't have to do a trip if that's not in the budget, no shade. But knowing it's not in the budget personally so doing it on someone else's budget on an ashes spreading trip??"
"Also the thought of proposal sexy time happening in a nearby hotel room on my dads memorial trip just makes my skin crawl" --mbm1317
"NTA."
"It's in poor taste that her boyfriend was planning to use the trip to honour your dad and his ashes to propose. Yuck!"
"I feel like this is in the same boat as not proposing or announcing pregnancy during weddings, funerals, baby shower, bridal shower, bdays and such."
"You probably could have talked to your sister's boyfriend privately and explained all that, but then again, that might have been your sister's idea for her boyfriend to propose to her then?" --silly_vengeful_sloth
"NTA. Your BIL is wrong for even thinking about it imo. Like you said it's about your dad." --lologd
"NTA, I would be beyond pissed if someone did that at the memorial or funeral of a family member."
"Even on a trip to honor the last wishes. He should wait for a different trip; a trip he AT LEAST helped pay or plan for." --Persistent_Panther29
"NTA"
"Who wants to get engaged close to their dads death anniversary, on a trip to scatter his ashes?"
"I would be absolutely livid if my bf planned to do that, and even more livid if my sister & mum didn't immediately crush that idea." --winsomebunny
"NTA This is ick. It's not like proposing at a funeral, it is literally proposing at a funeral."
"You're spreading ashes and carrying out last wishes. How can this seem like the right time to propose to anyone???" --Zealousideal-Crew783
Hopefully OP and her faily can't work this out.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp