Anyone who's been close to a narcissist knows that there's nothing quite like coming into a room and catching your narcissistic friend, partner, or parent going through your mail, and then getting angry with you for being offended about them "caring about you."
Because by the time you catch them snooping, they've likely already been snooping, and possibly stealing, for a long time, cautioned the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor AlwaysFashionLA had always had a good relationship with her mother-in-law, even though she'd become increasingly suspicious that she might be going through her mail and other items while alone in her home babysitting.
But when she came home to discover some of her clothes sitting out, with her mother-in-law unapologetically planning to borrow them, the Original Poster (OP) didn't feel safe having her visit her home anymore.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for not allowing my Mother-in-Law (MIL) to babysit at my house because she goes through my stuff?"
The OP felt encroached upon when she came home from work.
"I came home from work last week to find some of my clothes on the couch. My mother-in-law was visiting and babysitting my child."
"When I asked what was happening, my mother-in-law's exact response was, I was going through your closet and found some great options for a date night I have this week.'"
The OP didn't trust her mother-in-law in her home anymore.
"In addition to my closet, I have noticed our mail is sometimes opened, especially from banks, too. We both have asked her not to touch our private things."
"Our baby is five months old, and although we have paid five times as much per week at daycare, she asks to watch him once a week. Now I have finally put my foot down and said that if she wants to watch him, it has to be in her house."
The OP's mother-in-law lashed out at her for the disinvitation.
"She is so mad at me, and apparently, I am entitled and don't appreciate how much she is helping us when she babysits."
"I am at a loss for words. She says she sees me as a daughter, and that's why she feels free to do that kind of stuff."
"But to me, we don't have that kind of relationship; it's just her trying to justify her actions. My own mother would never behave like that and invade our privacy."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that going through her things was unacceptable.
"NTA. If she can't be trusted to follow normal social mores, then she can't be trusted to watch your child, period. Not at your house, not at her house."
"Let her know that you will no longer be needing her services, and it is because you don't trust her." - ForwardPlenty
"Neither my mother, nor my stepmother, would ever do that to me, and I would never do that to my daughter... or anybody. Who taught her to have such terrible manners and boundaries?"
"I will bet, though, my MIL went through my stuff when I was at work and she was visiting from out of state. I came home one day and she had rearranged my kitchen cupboards." - pyxus1
"If you can't trust your MIL not to toss your living space like the FBI each time she is over, I'm not sure how it can be justified to leave her to watch the baby when she has such poor judgment."
"What's next? Is she going to override a decision OP has made about the child's care because 'she knows better'? I wouldn't give her the opportunity. Grandma has lost her sitting privileges. She cannot be trusted." - Scorp128
"NTA. Everyone loves you when you let things slide. But the moment you start putting boundaries in place and holding people accountable, suddenly you are 'difficult' and 'entitled.'"
"You don't owe your inner peace and well-being to anyone, so change the locks and continue to put those boundaries in place, OP." - Ravenslaww_Carshower
"NTA."
"Yeah, this screams of crossing all kinds of lines, this is only going to get worse, and you can not be only one to get this through to her."
"You, your husband, his father, even siblings need to step in, your MIL does not see any of this as wrong, she needs to be told from several points of view what she is doing is violating all kinds of privacy."
"Your child's life will be invaded, if not already, you need to settle boundaries now before she creates her own." - Kooky-Situation3059
Others agreed and were certain that the mother-in-law was trying to twist this into being the victim so she could continue snooping around.
"NTA. Her justification of seeing you as a daughter doesn't excuse her behavior. Also, I don't think it's even justification; it's manipulation." - Wildflower_Whisper
"Babysitting at her house would be easier for her than going into your house. She's doing this to dominate, manipulate, and control you. Going through your bank statements? Block your credit report before she starts messing up your finances." - Militantignorance
"Setting up boundaries will always start a war if you're setting them for a narcissist, which your MIL seems to be. Not wanting a war is just an excuse to continue to allow them to walk all over you because it's 'easier.'"
"I get it. I used to be the same way, until I just couldn't anymore. The moment I set up boundaries and enforced them was when s**t hit the fan, but it was necessary for my own sense of peace. For those who fought against my boundaries, they got the boot. No explanation, no warning, they're just gone."
"You'll never experience true peace until you set up strong boundaries and 'clean house'when it comes to toxic relationships. If that's okay with you, then so be it, but it's all on you and no one else." - JoMamaSoFatYo
"NTA. Going through your stuff without your permission is NOT acceptable. It's not okay to do it without asking, and even worse if you've specifically asked her and she did it again anyway."
"Who cares if she sees you as a daughter? Even if you were her daughter, that is still out of line!" - Tdluxon
"OP and her husband don't need MIL to watch their baby at all. It's not saving them any money. They were doing this as a FAVOR to MIL. And they get repaid by MIL invading ALL their privacy?"
"Nope."
"Take away MIL's babysitting privileges. She's not even sorry for what she's done. There's no way I'd have her spending 9 hours/day with my infant once/week when I can't even trust her in my home AND SHE SEES NOTHING WRONG WITH HER ACTIONS." - PanicAtTheGaslight
After receiving feedback, the OP shared an update in a second post.
"I have an update for all of you wonderful people that helped me see things for what they are and put a stop to it!"
"In the original post, I shared how while babysitting my son, my MIL went through my closet and picked some of my clothes that she wanted to wear for a date, and that she was opening our mail."
"Well, friends, here is what happened. I had a conversation with my husband and said that I do expect him to handle his mom when she behaves like that in the future, but at this time, it was important for me to speak to her and lay out some ground rules of what I expect her not to do in our house."
"She came over after our baby was asleep, and I told her I was not okay with what she did. That I felt violated and would appreciate that if she found herself in our house alone again to please not go into our room, and all personal stuff."
"She became very mad at first and then played the victim. She said the reason I don't accept this is because I don't like her and accept her. She said she has suspected that for years."
"I told her I have actually always liked her and having her around, and that prior to all these issues, I never really had an issue with her."
"She continued to play the victim, and this went on for so long that I stood up and said that conversation was going into loops, that I don't have to prove to her that I never had an issue with her before, and that conversation was over."
"I believe she was trying to make me once again look like the bad person. That I am only upset because it was her. That I have a problem with her."
"And guess what, now I do. Now I do dislike her, because I finally see who she is. She is still his mom and I will respect her as such, but she won't be coming to my house anymore, and frankly, I have zero desire to hang out. I have never been around someone so toxic and it's truly sad."
"For all the MIL out there, please don't be this nuts! And for all of you who helped me understand her behavior, thank you!"
Fellow Redditors reassured the OP that this behavior was over-the-top and she was NTA.
"Uhhh, it's a FEDERAL OFFENSE in the United States to open someone else's, let alone read someone else's, mail."
"She's lucky she didn't get reported for that s**t. And what a CREEP with your other possessions. Never let her come in again. NTA." - Confident-Skin-6462
"Oh my god. Change your locks, OP. NTA." - Amazing-Wave4704
"I was making coffee one evening, and when I walked into my living roo,m I found my father-in-law rifling through our mail, reading a water bill. They acted like I was weird and they were completely normal."
"He then suggested to my husband, who was employed by them at the time, that we were too young to be organising bills and he should keep my husband's wages, pay our bills for us, and give him what was left over…"
"I was called ungrateful and told it's not just up to me as it's their son's house and bills, too, and they are his parents, so they should have a say in all of this."
"It's incredibly frustrating and a privacy violation. I'm sure if I rifled through his bills, he'd have something to say on the matter."
"Years later, I also found him on my Gmail settings as a backup account. Turns out, I left my gmail signed in whilst borrowing their printer and he f**ked with my settings."
"Pretty sure he had access to everything the entire time we were no contact. I wondered how they knew I was pregnant with our third when I'd kept it a secret from literally everyone."
"There are people like that in the world. Don't find out the hard way that your mother-in-law is one of them. NTA." - Sudden-Pomegranate95
"This woman has necrosis of the brain. I have pet- and kid-sat for so many friends and family, and it NEVER occurred to me to look in any closet except a kitchen cabinet for a spice."
"Do not let her into your home unless your husband and you are there. It is so bizarre. Glad you confronted her." - ChampionSad1586
"I'm a MIL, and this is crazy. As far as her trying to make her the victim, reverse uno card that crap right back on her. Tell her that you're so sad because you felt so close to her, and it hurts to feel so violated by someone that means so much to you."
"That when she does this, you can't help but feel like she's announcing to you and your husband and to everyone how little she thinks of your home, belongings, ability to handle your responsibilities. That if it were anyone but you, she wouldn't be doing this..."
"Ok, probably not the healthiest way to respond, but you can imagine doing it and seeing the look on her face."
"I admit, I have arranged things at my son and daughter-in-law's house, but WITH THEIR PERMISSION (helping them unpack after they moved across several states with a newborn and toddler)."
"All of it has been, 'Is it okay if I...' and with the clear understanding that they can say no, with no hard feelings, and unless they asked, it was never 'personal' items like clothes and stuff, it was like, 'Do you care if I unpack the kitchen? Any particular place you want stuff to go, or do you want me to just put it where I think makes sense and you can move it later?'"
"Now, I admit, sometimes I put things away in the wrong spot at their house or at our daughter and sister-in-law's house, but then, there are times they put stuff away in the wrong place at my house. We all laugh about it because we know it's not intentional, it's truly a case of I don't know which drawer the garlic press goes..." - justanotheropinion72
The subReddit applauded the OP for standing up for herself and could only hope that she would enforce strong boundaries that would keep her, her well-being, her home, and her child safe from her mother-in-law's overstepping.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp