Content Warning: Bullying, Mental Health
By default, most of us have a positive opinion about others, though we generally hold our loved ones in higher regard.
It's heartbreaking and even disorienting when we find out we were wrong about them, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
After overhearing his son's plan to bully one of his classmates, Redditor advicedadneeds39 discussed his concerns with his wife.
But when he learned how his wife felt about it, the Original Poster (OP) found himself looking at his wife and son a little differently.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for punishing my son for a 'harmless' prank he's pulling?"
The OP was proud of his family.
"I have three kids. My oldest is at university, so it's just me, my wife, and two of them (16 Male and 11 Female)."
"All my kids are children who have been raised well and they've grown to be people I'm proud to call my own."
But he was shocked when he overheard what his son was doing.
"My son recently had some friends over and things were going fine."
"But then I went upstairs at one point to bring them the pizza they had ordered, and I overheard my son talking about how his friends owed him something for asking a girl in their class out as a prank."
"From what I gathered, the girl was someone his friends didn't deem attractive enough and a load of other bulls**t."
The OP attempted to discuss the situation with his son.
"I decided to talk to my son about it after his friends left to save him from embarrassment."
"I did raise my voice a little, but that was due to how maddening the whole situation was."
"The same thing had happened to my cousin when we were younger and I saw how the whole thing affected her as she took on new relationships."
"My son argued back that it was just a prank that wouldn't hurt anyone and that I was going against him by listening to his friends' private conversations."
"He said that while he felt sorry for my cousin, he was 'mature enough' to understand to not pull the prank any further."
"I didn't listen to any other excuse he gave and decided to ground him for two weeks."
"He said that I shouldn't have any say in this when the whole thing had nothing to do with me."
The wife's perspective on the situation surprised the OP.
"My wife claims that 'boys will be boys' and that it's something harmless."
"When I asked her how she'd feel if this was played on our daughter, she simply said, 'That won't happen because she has good genes.'"
"My MIL and FIL (Mother-in-Law and Father-in-Law) are blowing up the family group chat about how I'm hurting their baby for normal teenage boy behavior."
"So AITA?"
"If I am being too nosy about an act that has nothing to do with me, I will take back my son's grounding."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some were grateful that the OP had stood up for his son's classmate.
"NTA, I am so pleased to see a man standing up for a girl he doesn't know against his own family. We absolutely need more of this. People need to learn that this behavior is extremely hurtful for any person."
"The wife sounds like a total nightmare and the reason toxic expressions like 'boys will be boys' still exists."
"Does she honestly think because her daughter has 'good genes' that no guy will ever do hurtful things to her? I guess when they do, she can just shrug it off and say, 'Oh well, boys will boys.' Maybe she will even follow it up with, 'Maybe if you lost some weight, guys would like you more.'"
"Your son is absolutely a bully like this for a reason, man, and I don't think it's you." - greenwitch1306
"As someone who was asked out as a prank and still has scars from it more than 20 years later, NTA. OP, this is not a harmless joke. I guarantee the girl that he was talking about won't find it funny. Please, please don't back down." - Bookdragon345
"I was asked out by a fellow classmate when I was 12. At the time, I was bullied, so I sensed something in this situation was wrong."
"I wanted it to be true, but I was so paranoid that it could be a prank I declined. The boy who asked me kept trying to convince me together with the other people who bullied me. They did not take no for an answer."
"'The date' was supposed to happen in a school disco. So in the end, I had to make a sad decision not to go there because they wouldn't take 'no' for an answer, and I was terrified of possibly being publicly humiliated if I went."
"Turns out I was right: they planned to take my arrival at the disco as a 'yes' for the date (even though I planned to go with my friends and still say 'no' to the boy who asked) and planned to humiliate me and make fun of me. They were disappointed I didn't come, and the talk about 'going out' with the boy stopped."
"My point is: I kinda KNEW and SENSED they were just bullying me and wanting to humiliate me. Even though they didn't succeed in humiliating me at the disco, this was STILL a humiliating experience and made me feel so worthless and insecure. I hope they wouldn't have done it."
"But how must that poor girl have felt when your son asked her out, and she said yes? She must have thought it was a legit question and must have been absolutely THRILLED your son asked."
"Just think how her heart must have dropped when your son and his friends were like 'looool, lmao, I was just pranking ya!' Think how humiliated and insecure she must have felt."
"NTA, OP. Your son is a cruel idiot for doing this, especially just a couple of years before becoming a legal adult. And his mother? Her attitude sucks. I can't help wondering if she has something to do with the way your son is treating girls." - Momoyachin
"OP, I used to work at a facility for severely emotionally dysregulated and traumatized adolescents. One of the common sequelae of childhood trauma is poor cognitive function. A lot of those kids could barely read, had trouble anticipating logical consequences, etc."
"During that time, I overheard a kid describing plans to pull a similar prank. He was laughing. I asked him what was funny about the prank? What did he expect to get out of this? And how he thought he might feel if someone were to do that to him?"
"He became upset. Threw his homework on the ground, went into his room, and slammed the door. He came out 30 minutes later, crying and apologizing. This kid had an IQ just above 70. I know it's not a good indicator of functional intelligence, but he was not bright. But he figured it out."
"The days of boys will be boys are over. Suicide rates in kids his age are spiking. For a potentially predisposed kid, whose life we know nothing about, this could be devastating for her self-concept. He and his adult enablers need to be checked. NTA." - nolothx
Others agreed and were concerned about the mother's attitude.
"The wife is enabling misogynistic, sexist, rape culture. As well as some troubling eugenics-like thinking, "she has good genes." Really?"
"NTA, but your wife and son sure are." - ladynox25
"Your wife is lying for your son because she KNOWS the girl will be hurt. But, her golden child and 'pretty' daughter are special, so hurting others is his right."
"NTA. You're the only one taking this seriously, and if your son is claiming a right to privacy that he doesn't have. I would be monitoring all of his devices because you accidentally caught him this time." - babcock27
"NTA. 'She has good genes'?! That's why your wife believes this won't happen to your daughter? What the f**k?!"
"And 'boys will be boys' is a toxic attitude that is at the core of rape culture, so your in-laws are pieces of work, as well."
"I'm sorry it's taken this long for you to find out the horrid attitudes your wife and in-laws carry." - B3GayDoCrimes
"I can't get over what a huge a**hole the wife is. No wonder the son is like that." - SomeKindOfOnionMummy
"NTA. 'Not your business'? 'Boys will be boys'? I apologize, but OP's wife is a really bad excuse for a woman and a human being."
"So it's not your business if your boy is treating others like second grade? Well, if you also by accident overhear him selling drugs, you should stay out of the way, it's none of your business, and it has nothing to do with you... Right..."
"Well, I was overweight all my life. Still am. The severe hormonal problem at 11 and thyroid shutting down at 17 (nothing beats one severe hormonal problem than two severe hormonal problems). While I wasn't extremely overweight, I was chubby."
"No one ever danced with me (or dated me, of course, through school), and only at one party did a boy ask me, and we danced for less than one minute. He was behaving strangely like he was defusing a bomb. I thought he was shy and just felt sorry for me always standing alone, so he went against the norm."
"I was feeling happy for him, even if out of pity he gave me this experience. Later, I found out that it was a bet, and he was acting like that not because he was even for a few seconds a nice guy, but because he was embarrassed and hated the whole thing."
"I was just a dare, a joke, not a human being with feelings. I never forgot that." - Yiabmfa
"Not gonna lie, that response from the wife would change the way I forever looked at her."
"I don't know that I wouldn't be utterly disgusted every time I thought about her and that she thinks it's fine for her son to bully girls because they don't have good genes."
"So much ick in that one statement. It would be enough to make me question my relationship and if the moral differences there are too great to salvage a relationship." - babygirlrvt75
The subReddit was left shaking their heads from the attitude that the OP's son, wife, and extended family carried. Though he was only one voice, the subReddit encouraged him to continue to speak up about the bullying in the hopes that his message would eventually be the one that would stick.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/
If the article focuses on LGBTQ+ youth:
LGBTQ+ Youth can get help through:
- TrevorChat — 24/7/365 at https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help-now/#services
- TrevorLifeline — phone service available 24/7 at 1-866-488-7386
- TrevorText — Text "START" to 678678. Available 24/7/365.
- TrevorSpace — online international peer-to-peer community for LGBTQ young people and their friends at https://www.trevorspace.org/
Trevor Support Center — LGBTQ youth & allies can find answers to FAQs and explore resources at https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/trevor-support-center/#sm.0000121hx9lvicotqs52mb1saenel
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp