Content Warning: Stillborn Baby, Grieving Process, Baby Names
No one can prepare a new parent for the early days of being a parent, how hard childbirth can be, and what the interrupted, sleepless nights actually feel like. But they also don't tell you how it could feel to have all of that taken away from you in an instant.
Parents of stillborn babies and children lost far too young are still parents, and there's no What to Expect book to help them through grieving and life after becoming parents, empathized the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor lilbrusk wanted more than anything to be a mother and was utterly devastated when her daughter, Riley, was stillborn.
But when her brother and sister-in-law later gave their baby her name but spelled it "Rylee," claiming that the Original Poster (OP) had no room to complain because she "didn't even have a baby," she questioned how she could possibly stay in contact with them.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for cutting off my brother over his daughter's name?"
The OP was thrown into a depression when her daughter was stillborn.
"I (27 Female) and my sister-in-law (SIL) (32 Female) found out that we were pregnant only two weeks apart from each other. She and I were best friends at the time. We went baby shopping and everything together."
"My husband at the time and I were so excited, we picked the name Riley when I was only 10 weeks along. Our crib bedding, baby book, and even newborn outfit, all had the name 'Riley' on them."
"Unfortunately, I lost my baby three months before my due date, resulting in a stillbirth. I then found out I was infertile after, making another pregnancy incredibly unlikely."
"I was crushed. I always wanted to be a mom. I was still happy for my brother and sister-in-law, although seeing her get to still be pregnant hurt."
The OP was even more hurt when she found out what her twin nieces' names were.
"They found out they were having twin girls, and I pushed through my pain and would still ask her about the pregnancy, like details about the baby shower, the room decor, and the girls' names."
"I noticed she was being really secretive about the names, but I didn't think much of it at the time."
"That was until I went to the hospital, overjoyed but also with my heart in shambles still, to meet my nieces for the first time. They handed me one girl, and I asked what her name was. 'Rae-lynn.'"
"I then saw my brother holding the other and asked hers. The room fell silent. Her mom, who knew none the wiser, said, 'Ry-lee.'"
"I know the spelling isn't the same, but the way I almost fell to my knees, seeing a newborn baby in perfect health with the same name as mine, who I had lost only three months earlier."
"It was hard enough holding a healthy baby that wasn't mine at the time, but knowing I would hear the same name as mine all the time sent me into a deep depression."
"I really tried hard to still be a good aunt, but the sting of hearing that name and seeing a beautiful, healthy baby attached to it felt like me losing my baby all over again."
"Someone even came into my job with a kid named Riley, and I broke down in tears."
The OP's brother and sister-in-law were totally apathetic to her feelings.
"My brother and sister-in-law have complained a lot about me not being as present with my nieces as I am with my other brother's children."
"But the name sticks out like a sore thumb. Everyone knows, but it's just ignored, and I'm expected to get over it."
"They even asked me for my baby's stuff, and I gave it to them, totally numb. Her friend asked why the name was spelled wrong, and her sister told her it was my baby's name, and I was nice enough to give them my deceased baby's items."
Even a few years later, the OP struggled to be around that portion of her family.
"Finally, it's been a few years. It's still hard for me to be around them, but not as much because of the name and grief, but more because someone who was my best friend and my own brother would be willing to hurt me like that."
"It all came to a head when they pushed me to answer why I'm more involved with my other brother's children (I see the twins four to five times a year and my other brother's kids around once a month)."
"I felt cornered by them, so I finally broke the silence and said it was because of the name Rylee."
"My sister-in-law said, 'It's a family name,' referring to not Rylee but Leigh because that's her mother's middle name."
"My brother also said it doesn't matter because they can't steal a baby name when I don't even have a baby."
"So I know years have passed (the twins are five now), and if I went no contact back then, it would be understandable, but I feel like I really gave it my best shot, but I can't handle it anymore, but my neices also know who I am and would probably miss me."
"Would I be wrong if I go completely no contact with my brother and sister-in-law?"
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some empathized with the OP and reassured her that the couple was completely in the wrong.
"They asked you for your babies' stuff?!? Holy…"
"I'm so sorry, OP, for all of your pain. NTA for sure, but they definitely are." - needcoffeeee
"They asked for her baby's stuff and then proceeded to tell her she doesn't have a baby. What butt nuggets. NTA, OP, and I'm so sorry for the hurt they've caused you." - Ok-Celebration-2221
"God d**n, that's not just pouring salt into the wound, that's like cutting open a new wound and pouring salt in it so the person dies!"
"OP is NTA."
"BIL and SIL are such colossal a**holes so big the two of them together could make an a**hole black hole with gravity so dense it would suck other smaller assholes into it."
"Anyone who gives you issues should be given the link to this thread." - Stormy8888
"NTA, I'm so sorry for your loss, and you do have a baby, and she will always be a part of you. Your love for her will keep her spirit with you. Your brother and sister-in-law are horrible."
"Such terrible people to ask you for your baby's things. I would not have given it to them! Condolences, Op. Do what you need to keep your peace." - sacrebleu777
"They very well KNEW it was wrong to name the second baby girl RyLee. They were hesitant to tell OP the name of the little girl. They knew for weeks that it would hurt OP. But their low EQ made them assume that OP needed to get over it within a couple of days." - stationaryspondoctor
Others agreed and pointed out exactly when they would have cut contact.
"After his statement about you not having a baby, cut them off. Now. Had he said that when they were born, you would have then. They are insensitive and cruel."
"You DO have a baby; unfortunately, they passed away. You ARE a mother. They cannot take that from you."
"A family name, as you said, is a much different name that happens to sort of kind or rhyme. F**k them. Block them and live in peace. You owe them nothing. You don't own a name and you aren't forced to be around people so hateful." - United-Manner20
"The moment he said you don't have a baby, you should have responded, 'And now you don't have a sister.' You deserve so much better than that, and you are NTA if you cut them out of your life." - Sea_Ad_27
"My MIL lost a baby, stillbirth, decades ago. Her niece still asked her permission to use the name for her daughter almost 20 years later. Block the brother and SIL. They are heartless, especially with the baby stuff." - Tigerzombie
"The name is not the problem. The disrespect is. You HAVE a daughter named Riley who unfortunately, was stillborn. In French, we say 'parange/mamange/papange' like the parent/mom/dad of an angel to recognise that children who passed away have existed."
"This situation is a pity for the twins, but their parents' attitude, dismissing your feelings, your family, and lying is what led to LC or NC. I'm sorry for you. NTA." - Turbulent_Guest402
"That was so cruel. I would never want to see or speak to them ever again after that. You 100% are a mother, and they're acting like you aren't. I can not fathom how anyone would think it's okay to choose the name of someone else's baby who has passed away. Not asking if it's okay makes it even worse."
"How they don't see anything wrong with this and don't understand why you are hurt amazes me. Of course, the name of your stillborn baby upsets you. It's a reminder of how you lost your baby. Anyone would be upset by this. Yes, you probably should've said something about it right away, but you were hurt."
"So yes, it's been years, but with how they're treating you now that they know why it is unforgivable, you're definitely NTA and absolutely should go no contact. Yes, it's sad that you won't get to see your nieces and nephews, but that's THEIR fault, not yours."
"They decided to be cruel to you, so you can decide you want to go no contact. That doesn't include their kids, but since they're kids, they're a part of that no contact. Anyway, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I can not imagine how hard all this was on top of losing your baby. Yes, it was years ago, but that pain doesn't go away." - Sad-Indepedent3540
It's alarming to imagine a couple being so thoughtless and mindless that they would choose the same name, albeit with a different spelling, as the girl who would be their niece and the daughter of their still-grieving sister.
It'd be one thing if they chose a name that sounded cute alongside Riley, like "Riley and Reagan" or "Riley and Rosey," as a mild nod to their late niece, but to take the name, take the OP's nursery items with the "wrong spelling," and even suggest she wasn't a mother was downright diabolical.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp