Couples need to have allll the serious conversations if they want to make a relationship work.
And sometimes, even after laying out the hopes and dreams and values and beliefs for each other, it still might not work.
More than occasionally, too, the wants the involved parties claimed in the beginning do tend to shift.
But do you hold that against your partner if ultimately things don't work out in the relationship?
A man on Reddit is wondering if he's in the wrong after cutting off all communication with his ex-wife because he just found out the vasectomy he got when they were married is irreversible, so he turned to the "Am I The A**hole Here" (AITAH) subReddit to seek feedback from fellow Redditors.
Redditor ComplaintNod asked:
"My wife divorced me 5 years after making me get a vasectomy.""AITAH for not being on speaking terms with her anymore?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My ex wife (32/F[emale]) and I (32/M[ale]) finalized our divorce proceedings last year."
"We had a kid when we were 21, we got married at 25, and at 26, my wife made me get a vasectomy because she did not want any more kids."
"I was hesitant because I always wanted more kids, but for the sake of our marriage, I decided to get a vasectomy, and my wife was very happy about it."
"However, our marriage went through its ups and downs, and we both amicably decided on a divorce because we weren't compatible."
"Even after the divorce, we were on good speaking terms and we were good friends."
"However, a month after finalizing our divorce proceedings, I went to the doctor to check if my vasectomy could be reversed, and after evaluating everything, the doctor told me it couldn't be reversed."
"I was devastated, and really regretted listening to my wife many years ago who made me get this vasectomy, and who also then divorced me later."
"I took a week off work because I was really struggling with this news, and I built up a lot of resentment towards my ex wife, but for the sake of our son, I acted like everything was normal."
"However, I decided a week later after speaking to my sister that I needed a clean break from my ex wife and to cut off all communication with her even though she was my son's mother."
"My sister let my ex wife know."
"The co parenting arrangements would still be the same and I would drop and pick up my son, but if my ex wife attempted to even say anything or speak to me, I would go to the courts and the co parenting arrangement could then become extremely complicated."
"Any further communication with me would be via my sister."
"It's been almost a year since this arrangement, and my son asks me occasionally why I don't speak to his mom anymore."
"He told me he's seen his mom crying many times especially after I drop him off, and when he asks her about it, she says nothing."
"My sister tells me my ex wife is very remorseful about it, and if she could take it back, she would, and she's asked multiple times if we could at-least communicate normally because she misses talking to me."
"But I will never go back on it, especially as I've now been dating my current girlfriend for a few months and we're becoming serious."
"AITAH?"
Redditors weighed in on the situation and offered OP some advice.
Several urged him to see another doctor about his vasectomy.
"Get a second opinion." - clearheaded01
"Go see another surgeon."
"Also, there is another procedure I think that can take a fine needle and extract sperm from the testes?"
"There are options depending upon finances and where you live."
"Donor conception could also be an option."
"Also get therapy. Just for getting through this."
"It's a very extreme response to your grief." - talbot1978
"I hope that you aren't taking one urologist's opinion on your reversal."
"Please get a second opinion from a specialist, preferably at a teaching hospital associated with a prestigious university."
"Ask for the urology department or check the urology fellowship for a recommendation."
"Good luck!" - Disney-Nurse
Many also thought it would be a good idea for OP to see a professional to help him navigate and process the new information.
"What you need is some therapy."
"I understand that you were on the fence about getting the vasectomy in the first place, but you decided that for the sake of your marriage to go through with it."
"But you're acting like this was some sort of premeditated thing that she did to you."
"That she premeditated convinced you to get a vasectomy just so she could divorce you YEARS later and you wouldn't be able to have other kids?"
"You're under no obligation to talk to her about anything but your son, but going so far as to say if she ever speaks to you, you'll go to the courts and make things needlessly complicated, like that wouldn't hurt the son you claim to care about, is extreme."
"Either you love your son enough to co-parent respectfully and peacefully, or you love your hurt ego more."
"Which is it?" - TheBattyWitch
And some feel that OP's ex is being unfairly punished while their son is ultimately the one who suffers the most.
"The only person who will really suffer with this arrangement is the kid" - DaisyLDN
"Get a co-parenting app. You have to discuss important events/things for your son."
"Unlike most people here, I want to be clear: you don't owe her anything else."
"Not because of the procedure, just in general."
"No one owes their ex anything."
"You do, however, have to parent your son."
"That means knowing about illnesses, school events, behavioral issues, etc" - Connect_Way_7724
"I understand that coercion is very much a thing, but you do need to take some responsibility for your decision."
"You agreed to the procedure and went through with it."
"If you were under such duress that you could not say no without horrible consequences, then you were in an abusive relationship."
"And that is what you need to come to terms with, and not just the vasectomy."
"If you balk at the suggestion of this idea, though, you've gotta stop laying all the blame on your ex, man." - altarwisebyowllight
"You realize if you go back to court, you're not going to look good for being the one who refuses to have any communication with your child's mother."
"You still have to talk to her regarding your son, even if it's through a co-parenting app or something."
"Ultimately, you're the one who decided on the vasectomy."
"It's not like she knew you were going to get divorced when she asked you to get one."
"She didn't force you. She didn't hold a gun to your head."
"You could have said 'no, that's a deal breaker.'" - Plastic_Concert_4916
"I don't wanna call you an a**hole, but you come off as very immature."
"You seem to be projecting blame a lot."
"You first said you both agreed to divorce, then you blame it on your ex: 'she divorced me.'"
"Also, as a fellow snipped guy, I'm going to tell you that as a grownup, you could have said No."
"It doesn't sound like she put a gun to your head."
"And even if she threatened to break up if you didn't do it, you should have said No."
"I, for one, wouldn't want to be with a person who forces me to do things against my will."
"Divorce or no divorce, you made the conscious decision to be no longer able to have kids."
"No matter how your relationship would have turned out, you still could not have any more kids."
"Thirdly, the way you phrased your ultimatum to her: 'if she says even a single word, I'm going to court.' That sounds childish, honestly."
"I understand being resentful and not wanting to be in contact with her anymore, but being this rigid about it won't help, it will just escalate tension and ultimately hurt your child."
"You can already see that the kid is feeling the tension and it's not good for their development." - hugh_jorgyn
"You need to be able to talk about your 11-year-old child."
"You don't have to talk about anything else. You don't have to like her, but your wife isn't dangerous or abusive, and it will punish your child if you two can't communicate properly."
"So yeah, you would be TA (the a**hole)." - pamplemouss
"You both divorced amicably."
"It was a joint decision."
"You also made a decision as a couple who thought they were gonna spend the rest of their lives together."
"She didn't cheat on you."
"She didn't ruin the marriage all by herself."
"You are as much to blame as her, and it's a shame you can't give your child some semblance of a normal childhood because you're upset." - MrGritty17
His fellow Redditors have given OP a lot of options to consider.
Hopefully, he will listen to a few of them for the sake of both his and his son's emotional well-being.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp