Content Warning: Trying to Conceive, Fertility Struggles, Vasectomy
One of the most important conversations a couple has to have before getting married is where they stand on having children: whether or not they want children, how long they want to be married before trying, and approximately how many kids they'd like to have.
While people's desires might change as they grow up and their life circumstances evolve, it's only fair for two people to be honest about these goals, so they can decide if they are compatible on a deeply incompatible issue, agreed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor sir-fails-alot and her husband never really closed the door on the idea of eventually having a child, but they also entertained ideas about how not to have one, like possibly getting a vasectomy at some point.
When the Original Poster (OP) reached a point where she really wanted to have children, her husband said he was willing to try, but more and more evidence stacked up to suggest that he didn't really want children anymore.
She asked the sub:
"Am I overreacting for thinking my husband got a vasectomy and is lying about it?"
The OP and her husband reached a point in their marriage where they thought it was time to try to have children.
"My husband (35 Male) and I (30 Female) have been married for seven years and have been trying to conceive for about two years with no luck."
"I finally decided to go to a fertility doctor and get everything checked about three months ago. It turns out all my plumbing is working properly, and I should be having no issues conceiving."
"The fertility doctor also asked me to have my husband provide a sample to measure his sperm count."
"My husband has a daughter (10 Female) with his ex, so we know his swimmers worked at some point. He even got a paternity test when she was born to confirm (projecting, much?)."
The OP became increasingly suspicious that her husband was not interested in having a child.
"Early in our relationship, we talked about not having kids and even threw the idea of a vasectomy out there, but he never followed through with it."
"Since trying to conceive, he has not been enthusiastic but says he’s ready for another kid (mainly me pushing for it)."
"He went on a short work trip earlier this year, and when he came back, our intimacy was different, and it almost seemed like he was being extra gentle on his side and going really slow like I’ve never seen before. He’s back to his normal intimacy patterns now."
"His sperm count came back at zero or below detectable levels."
"My light googling told me that this is possible with genetic issues, injuries, and some medications, but he doesn’t fall within these categories."
Her husband denied having a vasectomy, but the OP had other reasons not to trust him.
"We’ve had some trust issues in the past, and I told him I’m not sure I believe he hasn’t had a vasectomy, but he swears he hasn’t."
"He's lied in the past about infidelity and other things that he doesn't see as important. He was raised in a bad household and taught to lie at a young age, about virtually everything, and he hasn't broken that habit even in adulthood."
"He's the type of person who will never admit to a lie unless I have black-and-white bulletproof evidence that shows otherwise."
"When I ask him or tell him that it seems like he doesn't want a child with me, he always says he's willing and wants one. I just wish he would be straightforward with me if he really doesn't."
The OP felt conflicted about where to go from here.
"Why go through the effort of getting clipped instead of telling me he doesn't want another kid, and then I'd leave him alone?"
"We never said we'd be child-free, so I'm not flipping the script on him or anything; we always left the possibility on the table."
"Am I wrong for suspecting he’s had a vasectomy? How can I put this to rest and find out if he has or hasn’t, outside of just believing his word?"
"AIO?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NOR: Not Overreacting
- YOR: You're Overreacting
Some cringed and pointed out that it was clear that the OP's husband didn't want more children, vasectomy or not.
"Whether he had a vasectomy or not, one thing seems clear: he doesn't want another kid." - beatissima
"How much more straightforward is he supposed to be? You already know he doesn't want more kids. He has already told you so."
"You're just bringing it up because you have changed your mind and you want him to want it too."
"He probably said he's ready just to keep you because he loves you or doesn't want to get a divorce."
"The only road this is going down is one of resentment. Either from you because you want to have kids or from him because you forced him to have kids."
"You both need to discuss expectations and alignment in terms of ACTION, not just talk." - Yeesh-Yeesh-Yeesh
"I mean ... I think he kind of has been straightforward with you about not wanting another kid. He's only said he wants another one after you pushed. He should've held his ground, but he probably 'agreed' after you kept pushing and he didn't want to argue about it anymore." - littlelupie
"I mean, a year ago, you were on here asking people if you should message your husband's affair partner. You deleted the posts, but your comments live on because this is the internet, and nothing is ever really deleted."
"So clearly he lies to you. I don't know why you are still with the person who cheated on you."
"We can't say whether he had a vasectomy or not, but if he was on a 'work trip' and returned acting funny, I would suspect he's back to the behavior you were worried about only a year ago or picked up something else to lie about." - AngelaMoore44
"He has been. You just keep pushing for it. You literally admitted it. It’s YOU who isn’t being straightforward. You two are not compatible at this point."
"Even if he does manage to get you pregnant, it’d only be because you kept pushing for it. You’d bring a child into this world regardless of his feelings on the matter, and you’ve made that clear to him."
"You two need to be having a whole different conversation, and the sooner you admit that, the sooner you both can move on with your lives. NOR for wanting the truth, but that’s the least of your issues." - Mariehoney92
Others questioned if the OP still wanted this relationship if it meant not having children.
"Why would you want a kid with someone you trust this little?? Also, why push the child thing if he’s not really excited about it? This sounds like a disaster on many levels. Please don’t have a child." - palequeen452
"'Since trying to conceive, he has not been enthusiastic but says he’s ready for another kid (mainly me pushing for it).' I have issues with this statement, even without considering the potential vasectomy."
"This should always be a 'two enthusiastic yeses' situation. Full stop. What's going on here?" - bee102019
"It reads, to me at least, like OP is trying to coerce him into having a child that he doesn’t want after they agreed on being child-free going in. Maybe he got snipped, maybe he didn’t."
"They aren’t on the same page (god, it seems like they’re not even in the same f**king book), there are trust issues, and this relationship does not sound like the right situation to bring a child into." - MartinisnMurder
"As a childfree by choice woman, it just doesn't sit well with me. It's okay to change your mind. But if you change your mind, you've got to accept that your partner may not, and if your goals and values no longer align, then you need to respect that and end the relationship. As simple as that."
"I'm also not thrilled with the lack of self-awareness. I spent years of my life being told 'you'll change your mind!' because of people like this who aren't introspective enough to consider the full implications of their choice, only to change their minds later, but that's my own personal gripe to bear."
"My point is that it says a lot about a person who makes decisions without fully thinking them through, because the same can be said for the reverse. If you're saying you want a kid now, has that been equally as well thought out? Or are you going to change your mind once the kid is here and it's not all that you'd imagined it would be?"
"But, seriously, if you can't talk to your partner openly and honestly about this, let alone agree about it entirely, AND there are trust issues to the point where dishonesty and deception are in play? Come on. Not the place for a child to be brought into the mix." - DescriptionBulky6259
"This is the worst part. In my 30s, we agreed to leave having a child up to chance. I remember my husband and I both being so on the fence, but he was leaning more towards the kids, but agreed to whatever I wanted as I’d be carrying the child."
"I got frustrated because he seemed to be trying to not get me pregnant, but he didn’t admit to it. Now that we are separated, he has told me he did his best not to get me pregnant."
"Like, why didn’t you tell me at the time? That’s more than a year of taking extra vitamins and tracking my cycle and worrying that I could have saved. I even suggested the mental block he had at the time, and he said that wasn’t it."
"Whether or not he’s gotten a vasectomy, you two won’t be having any children. Are you okay with this? And are you okay not trusting your husband?" - LivSaJo
Though it seems that the OP is now more confident that she wants a child than she was earlier in her marriage, it seems that her husband is more confident, as well, about not wanting more children.
Both of those wishes should be respected, and the pair of them will have to decide whether this is something worth discussing so they can stay married, or if they want different things and should pursue other relationships.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp