Making plans with more than one other person at a time can be a nightmare.
Everyone is always busy.
That's while the further in advance, the better.
And just because one is planning with family doesn't automatically make it easier
Case in point...
Redditor happy_watermelon7228 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for asking my daughter to cancel a work commitment?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I am a proud father of three (24 F[emale], 18 M[ale] and 16 F)."
"I planned for everyone in the family to go out of town as a surprise, especially because things have been tough on us lately.
"I called my oldest daughter, Emma and she said she couldn't make it because she had to babysit that weekend."
"Emma is a professional nanny and she now works full-time for a family of two moms with two kids."
"I asked her if she could please cancel the weekend and spend the day with us."
"But she said that she had promised the family she'd care for their kids and that they were going out of town for a getaway without kids."
"I'm kind of sad because they're very understanding, and Emma could cancel and they'd be okay, but she doesn't want to."
"She'd rather give them a vacation than spend time with us, and I told her this."
"She said she loved her job, and I was being an AH for pushing this."
The OP was left to wonder...
"Does it make me an AH to want to spend time with my daughter?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP WAS the A**hole.
"YTA. I get the appeal of a surprise, but your daughter is an adult with a job, and you won't expect her to skip it at a drop of a hat."
"If you want her to join family trips, you need to let her know in advance so she can get the time off work in advance." ~ morgaine125
"Her commitment is more impactful than a shift at a store or something."
"If she cancels last minute, the parents have to scramble for other arrangements or cancel a trip."
"The costs involved with flights, rental cars, and hotels are significant, and they may have arranged for time off from their jobs too."
"It also doesn't sit well with me that he's asking if he's the a**hole for 'wanting to spend time with his daughter' when what he's really doing is showing a staggering amount of entitlement and self-centeredness."
"And expecting his daughter to drop everything and risk her job to do what he wants, which will also seriously impact the lives of an entire family he doesn't even know."
"The way he explained the situation, the complete lack of consideration for anyone who isn't him, the insistence on talking her out of a very reasonable boundary, and the manipulation in his framing of the question give me really bad vibes." ~ Nosfermarki
"Hell, even my non-work commitments are important to me."
"My dad was particularly bad about communicating plans."
"I'd get a last-minute invite to something for the family, but I'd refuse to bail on plans with friends."
"It only took a few times of me missing for me to get advanced notice about plans."
"To miss work, I'd absolutely need at least a month to schedule time off." ~ curmevexas
"'She'd rather give them a vacation than spend time with us and I told her this.'"
"That statement is manipulative crap."
"She is an adult with a job and has commitments."
"YTA, and if you continue with this manipulative crap, she won't want to spend time with you... period."
"Also, you don't make plans for an adult and then tell them after that they are going."
"She is not 16." ~ Eliza-Day
"YTA. She's an adult with a JOB; also an adult with a job should be fully aware you cannot always duck out for a trip."
"JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK THE TRIP IS IMPORTANT DOES NOT MAKE IT SO FOR HER!!!"
"She's a damn nanny, possibly even live in, which means she cannot just 'take time off.'"
"If you don't respect what she does, just say that because it's obvious."
"Take this as a lesson because your 18-year-old will soon enough ALSO have a schedule which means you need to TALK TO AND PLAN THINGS OUT WITH THE OTHER ADULTS!" ~ Fun-Replacement1998
"Given his lack of respect for his daughter's job, it could be that backing out of work is less of a big deal to him because it's two moms."
"Women take care of children."
"That's why canceling on a commitment to care for their children who an entire weekend isn't a big deal."
"I thought he mentioned the two moms because he was trying to emphasize that he knew enough about the family to know it would be fine if she canceled."
"This, of course, would just be differently misogynistic because he knows about her work and what's appropriate better than she does."
"The whole thing is ironic because Emma is the adult, and OP is whining like a child because he isn't getting his way." ~ lieutenantVimes
"YTA. You're disrespecting your daughter's job and work."
"And then you tried to guilt her and gaslight her."
"Don't expect your adult children to be able to drop their lives for your schedule."
"Check with them before you plan weekends away." ~ irish_fiona
"YTA - WOW!"
"You have a responsible daughter who HONORS her commitments, and you try to shame her into risking her job!?"
"Here is another option, PLAN AHEAD, so she can know in advance when she needs to request time off!"
"LACK of planning on YOUR part does not constitute an emergency on HER part!"
"I have trouble believing that you can be so self-centered as even to question if YTA is in this?" ~ Smitty_80013
"YTA. She gets PAID to babysit those kids. She isn't doing this for free, OP."
"Be proud that she is willing to stay committed to work instead of bailing last minute/in the middle of it."
"You're N T A for wanting to spend time with family, but you're TA if you push her further."
"Next time you want to do a family thing, plan it."
"Making surprise things is often a horrible idea because of the expectation of having to drop everything to attend."
"Re-plan this and set the dinner for a day and time that makes sure everyone involved is available to attend." ~ DJ_Too_Supreme
"YTA. Imagine a father telling someone to blow off a work commitment for an impromptu out-of-town getaway."
"Your eldest daughter shows that she has more responsibility than you and that her word actually means something (something that you could learn a thing or two about)."
"Imagine saying you're proud and then acting in such a childish manner without any integrity."
"Next time, how about planning a trip where everyone can attend ahead of time without needing to cancel work."
"Not everyone can just get up and go on a whim, and even if it is somehow possible, the sheer lack of professionalism... just embarrassing." ~ DrPHP
"YTA. You raised your daughter right, and she is acting responsibly."
"Would the Mom really care if she canceled one weekend? Probably not."
"But, what you're asking of your Daughter is for her to compromise on her values."
"It sounds like you just have to come to terms with the fact that your Daughter(s) are starting to create their own lives."
"Gone are the days where the girls drop what they're doing to go with Dad."
"You just need to plan better beforehand." ~ naisfurious
"They planned a trip in advance that can only happen because they planned, in advance, to have someone they know and trust watch their kids."
"Why would you at all assume that the mom wouldn't care if she canceled?"
"I would think Emma canceling because she decided last minute to go on vacation instead would be a huge deal in terms of their professional relationship."
"That's part of what makes OP the AH." ~ lieutenantVimes
"I bet they would indeed care."
"Being understanding is one thing - sometimes the people who work for you have emergencies, get sick, etc."
"And you just deal with it."
"It doesn't mean you're going to be fine with them deciding to go on an impromptu vacation on the one weekend you've arranged for them to be there because you'll be out of town."
"The daughter would be an idiot to ruin her relationship with good employers for a weekend trip with OP, who doesn't seem like a great person to be around anyway." ~ _palantir_
"YTA. Your daughter has made a career in childcare and has a commitment to her employer."
"You should respect her career decision and not pressure her to walk out on that commitment."
"Next time, realize adult schedules can be difficult to align, and better planning will lead to a more desirable outcome." ~ smr686s
"YTA It's a nice thought to want to spend time with your children."
"BUT your children have commitments they might but be able or willing to drop at your whim."
"They need a heads up like 'Hey, dad wants to go on a trip!'"
"Surprise! It's a trip! Nope."
"One of your kids is busy."
"And wheedling that your daughter can just cancel commitments made to her employers-nope."
"Not gonna happen."
"Quit complaining to Reddit."
"Go with the other two or delay until a time all three can go." ~ YouthNAsia63
Well, OP, Reddit has some issues with your impromptu getaway.
Your child is being responsible with their job.
Maybe you can just reschedule.
Hopefully, you'll all work it out.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp