Punctuality when a guest is in someone's home is a sign of respect. If the invitation says 6 pm, strolling in at 9:30 pm would be considered rude.
But what if the guest is consistently on time, but the host is late?
A wife and mother turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback on her chronically late mother-in-law.
Wiggitywoogitywham asked:
"AITA for refusing to go to my mother-in-law's (MIL's) for dinner anymore?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I want to preface this by saying that I am on the spectrum, and therefore struggle with nuanced social situations. Which is why I'm reaching out to Reddit for some third party insight."
"I just included that to explain why I was questioning my actions in this situation. I've posted on this sub before and was told in the comments that being on the spectrum was relevant info that I should've put in my post."
"My MIL (48, female) has recently moved back to our hometown after finally escaping from her ex. My husband and I were unaware of the severity of the situation (because MIL made certain to hide it), and I know that my husband is feeling very guilty about it."
"But MIL is doing better and has her own little apartment in town and has been working and rebuilding her life. We've made efforts to support her as much as possible, but we are in a tight spot financially, so what we can do is limited."
"For the past few couple weeks, my MIL has been inviting us over to her place for dinner multiple times a week. She has always loved to cook, and says she is excited to get to cook for family again. Plus she gets to spend time with our toddler."
"The problem is that she has consistently told us to be there around 6pm, only for her to not have dinner ready until 9pm or later. And she refuses any help in the kitchen."
"It's not that she's consistently cooking that whole time. She'll do some prep, then take a smoke break (outside). Then do a little more cooking, and then take a play-with-baby break. Then a coffee break."
"Then she'll do a little more cooking, then take a phone call outside. Then another smoke break. Apparently, this is how she's always done things."
"This is a major issue because we wind up staying out past our daughter's bedtime. Her whole nighttime routine gets thrown off, and it makes it harder to get her down for bed. Not to mention how cranky she gets waiting on the food."
"I've tried to gently talk to my MIL about this, but she has always been critical of me, and of my parenting. She thinks it's outrageous that I keep my daughter on such a strict schedule and insists that when her kids were little, they didn't have schedules and just ate when they were hungry and fell asleep when they were tired, and it worked out just fine."
"I asked my husband to talk to his mom about it, but she basically told him the same thing. Then went off on him about how she was just trying to help us out financially by providing a few meals for us, and how it was terrible of us to try to make her feel bad for just wanting to spend time with her family."
"So he dropped it, and we've been back to her place for dinner a couple more times since then. And it's still been served at 9 pm. And she's been making passive-aggressive comments about how I need to loosen up and how I can't expect the world to stick to my schedule."
"And my husband thinks we should just put up with it because his mom has been through so much, and he feels partially responsible because he was unaware of the situation and wasn't able to protect her."
"But after a particularly critical phone call with her yesterday, I told my husband that I didn't want to go to her place for dinner anymore.
"The phone call was about Christmas presents. She didn't like my ideas for what gifts my daughter might enjoy."
"And she didn't like that I told her no to a couple of her gift ideas. Like an American Girl doll. I told her that my daughter was too young for one and it would be better to wait a few years for that gift."
"She said that I was too controlling, that my daughter wouldn't be able to have a fun childhood if I didn't loosen up. And I mentioned that we were going small for Christmas this year, and she said that when her kids were young, no matter how strapped she was, she would bust her a** so her kids could have a magical Christmas."
"That she always spent at least $1,000 on each of them, so they could wake up to a giant pile of gifts. And she thought it was sad that we weren't trying harder to make that happen for our daughter."
"My husband insisted that she's just stressed because of everything she's been through, and we need to show her some leniency."
"I told him that she can come over to our place for dinner every now and then, that would be fine. But I'm not going to be held captive at her apartment anymore."
"We didn't really come to an agreement, though. And I'm thinking that maybe I'm being too harsh on my MIL, and torturing my husband in the process."
"I've become hesitant to be assertive because of how many times over the years that people have told me that I've been rude, and I have no idea why. And the added layer of her being a DV victim, that needs to be treated gently while she heals, just makes me even more apprehensive of my interactions with her."
"When my mom got too critical about my parenting at one point, I just told her, 'Your comments make me feel like you think I'm a bad parent, and it makes me not want to be around you'."
"And my dad got on to me for being rude when my mom was just apparently trying to help. So I've been biting my tongue."
"So Reddit, AITA?"
The OP summed up their situation.
"I may be the a**hole because I have refused to spend time with my MIL in the way that she wishes. She is going through a difficult time right now and could use more support and leniency from her loved ones."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"My MIL used to do this very exact thing to my husband and I when our daughter was young. Our attendance at 'family dinners' was requested and expected on a regular basis."
"And no matter how many times I explained that our daughter went to bed at 7 pm, dinner would be served..... at 7:30 pm. or 8 pm."
"After the in-laws did this more than once, I put my foot down and ripped my husband a new one. He had to figure out his priorities FAST. Please, his mom or have a happily fed child and a non-frazzled, not angry wife?"
"We began completely ignoring MIL's schedule, and I would pack my daughter's dinner and feed her at her hungry time (around 5 pm). I would always pack and eat something, too."
"Then I'd change my daughter into pajamas, and at about 7 pm..... we would say our goodbyes and leave—daughter slept during the car ride home."
"MIL figured it out. She didn't like it, but I didn't care. We were giving her the visiting time but respecting our daughter's needs too."
"Good luck, stay strong, you are NOT being unreasonable. Good for you for putting your child's needs first. NTA." ~ busyshrew
"This was going to be my suggestion. If MIL complains, just tell her, 'Kids eat when they're hungry and go to bed when they're tired'!" ~ thematicturkey
"NTA. Childrearing theories have evolved over the decades since your MIL raised free-range children."
"If you absolutely cannot refuse the invitation (which is not a summons, BTW), pack some dinner for your little one and stick to your bedtime routine so she isn't cranky and fussy."
"If MIL still has a problem with it, because waiting for 3 hours past a specified time isn't rude at all, then you need to present a united front with your spouse that your daughter will have a structured routine." ~ CheeseMakingMom
"I feel tortured just listening to what you have to put up with when you visit. I suggest that you and your husband get on the same page—can you afford a couples counselor or coach?"
"If not, you can set a boundary that you are not willing to go any more. If your husband insists on going, he can go by himself."
"If he is taking your child, it is all on him. I agree it is not at all good for your daughter to be so disrupted, but I bet a few dinners by himself with his mom and your daughter might make him come around."
"It is outrageous that he isn't sticking up for you when his mom is critical. NTA." ~ 2moms3grls
"I'd solve this by telling husband and MIL that you're showing up at 5:30 and leaving at 7:30 regardless. If dinner gets put on the table at 7:25, I'd still get up and leave at 7:30.
"I'd stand up, tell husband it's time to go, and that he needed to be in the car in the next 5 minutes or make arrangements to find his own way home."
"First time she cooks and nobody sticks around to eat, she will get the message and have dinner on the table at an appropriate time or stop inviting you. If your husband opts to stay, you know where he stands on the situation."
"Either way, everyone will understand you're tired of dinner turning into a 4-hour ordeal, and you're not going to do it anymore." ~ finitetime2
The OP provided an update.
"Many people have suggested that she is stalling to avoid being alone, and I believe that seems like the most likely scenario."
"I'm becoming more convinced that just inviting her over to our place, on our schedule, is the best thing to do right now. Then she would still get to play with her grandkid."
"And yeah, from some of the other comments, I'm starting to realize that my husband needs to grow a backbone against his mom, even if she has been through hard times."
"My husband is a very wonderful husband and father, but he is a bit of a pushover when it comes to his mom. I will talk to him again about the situation, but more sternly this time."
Keeping the interactions where the OP can control the schedule seems like a good solution.
Getting her husband to talk to his mother and handle any fallout sounds even better.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp