Vacations are for letting loose with no inhibitions, right?
Wrong! At least in Redditor WannaVacaitionDrink's case.
The Original Poster (OP) is typically a light drinker... except on vacation.
He is going on a family vacation with his wife and in-laws and recently learned new parameters are being set on his alcohol consumption.
The OP's wife recently told him she expects him not to go out the entire vacation since her parents paid for the trip.
This confounded the OP, driving him to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?' (AITA).
He asked:
"AITA for wanting to get drunk on vacation?"
He went on to explain:
"My [30-year-old Male] wife [26-year-old Female] and I (no kids yet) are going on vacation with her side of the family (parents, 2 siblings and spouses and some nieces/nephews)."
"I'm not a heavy drinker. Maybe 2 beers a weekend and that's not even every weekend. But on vacation I like to let loose and have many drinks. The next day when i'm hungover, i just relax."
"This vacation had a packed itinerary of activities and meals. I asked which night we were going out. Because based off the plans, there wasn't really a day to just relax."
"She said that wasn't happening on this trip. I asked her if we had to do everything and she said yes because her parents are paying for everything. All we had to do was pay for flights."
"I told her I used my precious vacation days for this and I want to do some things ourselves."
"She told me that this trip we won't be doing that and I can skip a trip getting hammered. But I don't want to and this has led to some arguments between us in the lead up to next weeks trip?"
"Am I the a**hole here? "
"Edit: I assumed (turns out incorrectly) that my wife would vouch for a night out and day off from activities. We have historically done this on our vacations."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"I hate when a 'gift' comes with strings attached. I wouldn't use my limited vacation time on a trip where I couldn't let loose or do what I want."
"This has nothing to do with drinking. It has to do with control and being treated like a child where you're expected to have no say and to go along with whatever you're told."
"Have your wife go without you. I'd sit this one out."
"NTA" - Katiew84
"Why go on a trip at all if your only plan is just 'getting hammered'? You can do that right at home."
"A vacation is an opportunity to see and experience a new place, not to just hang out in your hotel room getting wasted."
"YTA." - prairiemountainzen
"Really not a fan of wasting vacation time drinking and being hungover, but each to their own."
"And you thought this was going to be a vacation you could enjoy as you normally do."
"I'd pick a day where there's something you're not into and inform everyone you're taking a pass on that days activities, you'd prefer a lazy day etc."
"And let come what may."
"NTA" - NatashOverWorld
"NTA. I'm totally with you on this one."
"Everyone is different, but one major problem my wife has with visiting her family for a week or for planned vacations is that her parents fill every hour of the day with activities."
"We are adults, and we would also like to have a vacation that doesn't necessarily involve checking the boxes on someone else's agenda. If you're not on board with it, do your own thing for a day."
"The real question seems to be whether or not your wife is on board with it. Her parents, so her relationship to them is very different than yours."
"If you ask me, someone offering to pay my way for something I have no interest in doing is not really something that I'm interested in."
"You have no obligation to take them up on every single one of the activities, and just because they are paying for the stay does not make you a prisoner to their schedule."
"You are indeed paying for your flights, and you are using your vacation days."
"This is your vacation as well."
"You can say no, and so can your wife if she wishes." - Inevitable_Ease_2304
"NTA. Just because her parents are paying for it doesn't mean you have to go do everything they planned."
"I hate 'vacations' that are packed with activities every hour of every day. That's not a vacation, that's more work." - Extreme_Assistant_98
"hmm - maybe ESH?"
"I would totally understand asking for a day just to relax and hang out together without a schedule packed with family activities. There needs to be room for some downtime."
"However, at some point in your life it's no longer cool to get embarrassingly sh*tfaced and then spend an entire day basically recovering from alcohol poisoning."
"It's a little concerning that you are so disappointed you won't be able to get that drunk." - Used_Mark_7911
"NTA choose one day for yourself. Tell them ahead of time. If they paid, pay them back for whatever activity you are skipping. Your wife sounds controlling" - Dry-Cellist-8440
"NTA. If you want one night to let loose and get hammered and one day without a schedule full of activities, I don't see the issue with that."
"You are, in fact, using vacation days YOU earned to go, and even if it's mostly paid for by your in-laws, other than flights, you're still entitled to enjoy yourself for one day/night."
"If there's something expensive they prepaid for that you're ducking out of, pay them your portion and do your own thing."
"Otherwise, I would be inclined to let your wife go with her family and save your PTO for something you want to do with just your wife."
"As a wife myself, I say she is being unreasonable and controlling."
"Edit to add: Personally I prefer not getting hammered and hungover on vacation, or any time, really, but to enjoy the time in a place I don't normally get to go."
"But it's not fair to judge someone for that, so if that's what you want, and she seems to be well aware of this..."
"...I don't think spending on night/day doing what you want is too much to ask for." - SeveralImagination74
"NTA - the point of a vacation is to relax and do things you enjoy. If the trip doesn't sound like fun, then don't go. Or go, but make it clear that your itinerary isn't going to be the same as your in-laws."
"The Reddit Temperance Team will get fired up because you mentioned wanting to drink, but it doesn't actually matter what it is you want to do."
"Could be drinking, could be sky diving, could be playing YuGiOh cards. It's still your time, regardless of who's actually paying for the vacation." - No_Introduction1721
"'her parents are paying for everything.'"
"You sound immensely grateful for an essentially free vacation."
"'I told her I used my precious vacation days for this, and I want to do some things ourselves.'"
"No you don't. You just want to get wasted. You've made that abundantly clear."
"If you wanted to do an activity on your own, that would be entirely fine. You just need to speak up. But there's more—far more—to life than getting drunk."
"How often do you get to go on vacation? Probably not often. How frequently could you get smashed if you wanted to? Just about whenever."
"Here's where you border on AH in my mind: you pat yourself on the back for how like you drink."
"Then, when given a nearly free (other than the flights) trip, you suddenly want to spend the time getting trashed."
"HOWEVER, you are entitled to your views on what you find fun. You've expressed them. I cannot fault you for that. So, begrudgingly, NTA" - ironchef8000
"Maybe save getting hammered for the last night of the trip & dry out on the flight home?"
"NTA for wanting to but put some thought into the timing so you're not wasting a day being hungover" - BleachedA**whole [edited]
"Straight up, my guy. No one likes a drunk. I like to drink as well, but I am not going subject my family to it."
"This is a family trip it sounds like. Order a drink at mealtime or maybe at some point. If the whole point is to get wasted, then you don't sound very fun to be around. I vote YTA" - DragonDanno
"I'm going with YTA for this"
"You say you want to 'do some things ourselves' in reference to getting hammered, and I assume relax/nurse the hangover the next day."
"The 'ourselves' part gives me the impression you are expecting her to join you on this, which she has made it clear she has no intention of doing."
"If you want to go out by yourself, that's a bit better... but your wife and her family clearly were hoping for this to be a family vacation."
"I'm generally all for adults being able to do what the want, but when you accept the gift of a mostly free vacation, it's courteous to follow the one footing the bill."
"You make it sound like getting drunk and relaxing happens every vacation with you and your wife. I do think you'll be fine skipping out on it this time."
"Especially if you want the in-laws to keep funding future vacations. Just make it much more clear in the future that you require a night out/followed by a day of relaxing." - Forsaken_Avocado737
So, to each his own or follow the money?
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp