Support is important for people dealing with postpartum depression or anxiety (PPD/PPA). But as with all things, there should be limits and boundaries.
Especially if the person refuses to seek or accept treatment.
A woman dealing with her sister's PPD turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Asleep-Mycologist560 asked:
"AITA for refusing to let my sister take my kids anymore?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My sister (21) has 2 children, aged 3 years and 3.5 months, and suffers from postpartum depression/postpartum anxiety (PPD/PPA). I (30, female) have a 13-year-old son and a 11-year-old daughter."
"School vacation just went by and my sister had asked if both of my children could go visit her for the week. I asked the kids and they said they wanted to, so I said yes."
"Every single time my daughter FaceTimed me, she had my sister's 3-year-old daughter. I didn't think too much of it at the time because my daughter loves this little girl very much."
"But by day 5, both my kids were asking me to come get them. I show up and my sister starts begging me not to take the kids until Sunday—our original agreement—because 'having them here makes my anxiety go away'."
"I simply told her the kids wanted to come home and we left."
"Around dinnertime, my daughter made a comment about how she had the 3-year-old the entire time she was there. To a point where I guess my sister even asked to have the 3-year-old sleep with my daughter so she could get up with her in the morning so my sister could sleep in."
"My daughter stated that the only time my sister came downstairs was to shower or make food for herself. The rest of the time, my kids were left to fend for themselves and take care of the 3-year-old—including meals."
"My sister's boyfriend lives there full time and doesn't work either, so he never leaves. Therefore there were TWO adults in the house and neither of them watched their kid the entire time my kids were there."
"My sister, her boyfriend and the kids actually live with my mother."
"But my mother is on vacation currently and isn't coming back until next Thursday. Typically my mother is home 24/7, so I know my niece is usually cared for."
"I guess there were also multiple times that my sister asked my daughter to clean the house. I didn't confront my sister originally, because I didn't feel there was any point to it."
"But she just called my daughter about an hour ago and my daughter says to me—while still on the phone—'Auntie wants to know if I can go back over there on Friday'. I said 'absolutely not' and went back to doing dishes."
"Then my daughter hands me the phone; it's my sister asking why my daughter can't go there Friday."
"So I say 'because my daughter is not your maid or nanny. You made her wake up with your kid, take care of her all day, clean your house and then put her to sleep at night. My daughter is 11. She will not be parentified'."
"My sister immediately starts crying and says 'it wasn't like that, she was just helping me'."
"So I told her that both my kids wouldn't lie or tell me the exact same story if it didn't happen and that PPA/PPD is not an excuse to pawn 100% of your responsibilities off on a child, especially when her boyfriend was there full time."
"Now she's basically saying it didn't happen like that and that my kids were just 'helping' her and that she enjoyed having them there because the noise helped her not to panic. I told her it still wasn't happening and she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help."
"She's afraid of medications and she's worried if she goes in for therapy or anything that the state will take her kids. Her and I were in foster care for years and unfortunately she still holds the trauma."
"If she was paying my kids it MIGHT be one thing. I was a paid babysitter at my son's age. But I mean, they didn't even offer to make them food, let alone pay them."
"AITA?"
The OP summed up their situation.
"I feel like an a**hole because I know how hard it is to have PPD, but there is zero excuse for this."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"'…she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help'."
"Except that she didn't ask for help. She asked for your kids to go visit her, then put them in charge of childcare."
"Good for you for picking up your kids when they called and then advocating for them when you heard what happened. NTA." ~ glimmerseeker
"Not taking care of her mental health and instead using an 11-year-old for childcare that she can't do herself is far more likely to get CPS involved than going and getting help."
"NTA, and good on you looking out for your children/keeping them from being parentified." ~ caityjay25
"Her comment 'this is why women with PPD don't ask for help' doesn't make sense in this context. She is getting help with childcare, but she is not getting help with PPD/PPA."
"Your 11-year-old daughter is NOT adequate 'support' for PPA/PPD. Professionals specialize in this stuff."
"Sounds like the only 'help' she wants is someone releasing her from responsibility, not actual help for her issues. NTA." ~ somewhenimpossible
"NTA. My compliments on that nice shiny steel spine you've got there."
"This is an example of both parenting done wrong—your sister shoving her responsibilities onto your children—and parenting done right—you stopping the parentification in its tracks."
"If your sister won't get the therapy she needs, then she's going to perpetuate the generational trauma."
"I'd limit her access to your children without you or your mother present, until she addresses her mental health issues. It's just not safe for your kids." ~ savinathewhite
"NTA. Good for you for picking your kids up once they communicated they were over this. And good for you for not allowing them to be used in this manner again."
"They already wasted their entire school break on providing free labor to your sister, it's ridiculous she's asking for more."
"I hate to ask, but are your sure this is PPD and not a substance abuse issue? Are you sure the 3-year-old is being fed and cared for with these two parents who are completely checked out?"
"For her sake, I think it's worth further investigation and, potentially, a call to CPS." ~ JeepersCreepers74
"Lying about the pretense of having two preteens over is not asking for help. Actually asking for help is."
"If she wants an explanation outside of 'my kids are not your nanny/maids', lying to you is also a big breach of trust."
"I understand from your other comments she has trauma and refuses to get actual help...and I am honestly deeply concerned, but that is above my pay grade as a commenting rando online."
"You are NTA and I applaud you advocating for your kids." ~ Silent_Ad_8672
"NTA. Your children are NOT her emotional support animals. She needs to speak with a medical professional about her anxiety instead of using your children." ~ Swimming-Fix-2637
"NTA. Your children called you and asked to come home. You didn't just randomly show up and drag them kicking and screaming and force them to go home.
"So, she wanted you to force your children to stay there with her against their will?"
"Then when you said 'no', she called your 11-year-old directly to pressure her to go back. That's wildly inappropriate."
"She needs clear boundaries enforce when it comes to your kids." ~ LakotaGrl
"NTA—it did happen like that and she knows it."
"She might have ppd/ppa, but she also has a live-in sperm donor. If he's such a sh*t parent, then she shouldn't have had another baby with him." ~ Secret_Double_9239
"NTA. You are right not to send your kids back there. It's not fair for your sister to put that amount of expectation on them."
"I'm worried about your sister. She would do well to get some help for her mental health." ~ Socratic_Labrador_02
"Women with PPD are responsible for managing their mental illness. Not an underage niece or nephew or anyone else they ask/entrap."
"Also, the boyfriend is just consuming air and space in this world. NTA." ~ Radiant-Chipmunk-987
"NTA. I legitimately do not understand how a woman can expect a female child to operate like an adult—cook, clean, look after a younger child—but won't expect a grown a**, unemployed man to do the same." ~ RainGirl11
"NTA. She straight up took advantage of the situation. I understand getting a little RnR, but the first nap she took apparently felt too good to not repeat."
"And your children were there under the impression that they would be having special time with their Aunt and cousin. Just NO."
"I wouldn't put an end to bonding time with Auntie if the kids want it. But I would definitely set up rules and boundaries." ~ Pickme_og72queen
Mental illness isn't a free pass for inappropriate behavior.
Until OP's sister gets help for PPD, OP has not only a right but also a responsibility to limit access to her children.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp