Forgiveness is a very complicated matter that comes in many forms.
Some people think the best and most effective way to forgive is to simply move on, and make the past water under the bridge, no matter the severity.
Others find the only way to forgive is by letting go and moving on with their own lives.
Then, of course, there are people who find that some things are truly unforgivable.
The brother-in-law (BIL) of Redditor DrinkOk538 caused trouble with his marriage, eventually moving out of his family home.
However, when the original poster (OP)'s BIL begged to move back home after falling upon some bad luck and hard times, his wife refused this request without a second thought.
The OP later shocked her husband, when she told him that she would have done the same thing had she been in his sister-in-law (SIL)'s shoes.
Having some doubts about her behavior, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for Telling My Husband I'd Leave His Brother if I Were My Sister-in-Law?"
The OP explained why she shocked her husband by siding with his SIL:
"My husband's brother went abroad for a job six years ago."
"During the pandemic, his wife discovered that my brother-in-law had been cheating on her with another woman."
"They have a 10-year-old child."
"Since the pandemic, my brother-in-law hasn't returned home."
"I'm not very close to him or his wife, but we get along and have casual conversations from time to time since they've been married, and we've known each other for over 10 years."
"I didn't know about the cheating at first, but last year, during a casual conversation with my sister-in-law, I found out that my brother-in-law had been with this mistress during the pandemic."
"I believe she reached out to me because she was seeking help from my husband."
"My brother-in-law has not been supporting her or their child for years, and she confided that all his support goes to the mistress."
"Now, this is where the juicy details begin."
"My brother-in-law fell ill and can no longer work abroad."
"He wanted to return to his wife's home, which is their conjugal property."
"However, my husband informed me that his wife disagreed with this, which I completely understood."
"My husband and his family were upset with the brother-in-law's wife because they wanted him to live with his family."
"I told my husband, 'No sugarcoating—if I were your brother's wife, I wouldn't accept him either'."
"He got mad at me, saying that what I said was hurtful as a brother."
"I tried to explain that I was just being honest."
"I feel like I might be an a-hole because I didn't read the room, given the brother-in-law's situation."
"However, my point is that they haven't been functioning as a married couple for years."
"He didn't return for years, got a mistress, and now that he's ill, he thinks his wife is still waiting for him."
"For additional context, I hate sugarcoating things, while my husband is super close to his brother and acts like the head of their family, always being protective of them."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH – No A**holes Here
The Reddit community unanimously agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for taking the side of her husband's SIL.
Everyone agreed that the OP had every right to share her opinion, with most agreeing that the OP's BIL needed to face the consequences of his actions. Others were surprised and disturbed that the OP's husband wasn't more bothered by his brother's behavior, even wondering what he got up to behind her back.
"NTA."
"Of course she isn't going to welcome him with open arms."
"He hasn't supported his family."
"Why can't his mistress take care of him."- Artistic_Tough5005
"NTA."
"Cheating is cheating."
"Your brother-in-law needs to realize that there are consequences to his actions."
"And your Husband's family are all the a-holes with the brother as the biggest one of course."
"And all YOU did was express what you would do if it happened to you, which considering we are talking about brother in law being absent for months and expecting to be able to come home and act like nothing happened, sounds like your husband and his brother have been spoiled and sheltered by their mom their whole life."- Im_a_tw*t53
"Ask him the right questions 'if i leave the country, live with my lover for years, and after fell ill, would you accept me back, like nothing happened?'"
"'So, do you think cheating it is ok?'"
"NTA."
"P.S.: Keep an eye in your husband. He thinks it is ok cheating."- The_Boss16
"NTA."
"Oh cry me a river."
"Jesus, the guy a dirtbag who left his wife and kid to fend for themselves."
"He can kick rocks, and so can your husband."- Jyslina
"NTA."
"BIL imploded his marriage, and boy thinks he can come back home now because he's sick?"
"Boo frickin Hoo!"
"Someone else can take his philandering ass home."
"Rest of the family needs to leave poor SIL alone—woman has been through enough."-Pretty_Meet_432
"NTA."
"He didn't support her or HIS child for years and expects to be welcomed with open arms?!"
"Tell him to go reach out to the mistress for help."
"Your SIL needs to file for that divorce."- Fit_Profession_1780
"NTA, but why is your husband condoning this behaviour not worrying for you."
"I feel like people throw any sense of morality out of the window when it comes to friends and family doing shady stuff."- Darthkhydaeus
"NTA."
"HR can move in with his parents."
"He legally can't come home anyways."
"He hasn't lived in home for years and has no paper trail showing he's supported the household."
"I would call the police if he showed up."- Far_Nefariousness773
"NTA."
"But seriously, if your husband is acting as 'head' of the family, then he should have shamed his brother's cheating!"
"He should have supported his nephew and SIL."
"His getting mad at you and his actions and his family's actions speak a lot about their upbringing and character."
"If I would have been you, I would have devised a contingency plan and be more cautious."-shizuka_chan11
"NTA."
"And I have grave misgivings about your husband."- AgonistPhD
"NTA."
"He threw away his marriage; he needs to deal with it."
"SIL needs to file for divorce though."- TopAd7154
"NTA."
"To cheat and then abandon her and the child for years and then expect her to welcome him back when he gets ill is not just one slap in the face, but multiple."
"It very selfish, entitled, and cruel of him to do this to her and his child."
"He wants to live in the house he hasn't supported the upkeep of?"
"Is he also expecting her to be his carer?"
"Is he expecting to rely on her finances?"
"Is he expecting her to play stepmother should his affair child visit?"
"If that child does visit, will he continue to favor that child over the other?"
"SIL needs to divorce, sell the house and move on with her life."
"Your husband and his family are arseholes for expecting her to just roll over and accept being used."
"If they want to support your BIL, they can take him in."
"Your SIL is better off leaving a family that is treating her badly."
"You should take note."
"Should you and your husband ever fall out, his family will likely close ranks against you, too."- ghostoftommyknocker
"Lol, so your husband has just realized what would happen if he hypothetically had an affair and abandoned you without support, and it turns out he doesn't like it?"
"NTA, BIL is trying to avoid the consequences of his actions."
"I'd be telling him his mistress can take care of him."- Prestigious-Apple425
"NTA."
"I as your SIL would have served him the divorce papers as soon as I would have found out."
"Living together and having a 10 yo is not a 'mistake'."
"It's a life choice."
"I'd also sue him for child support."
"What a family of a**holes."- FionaFurunkel
"NTA."
"Your BIL might be sick, but that doesn't absolve him from what he has done to his wife and child."-Ok-Complex5075
"NTA."
"And I would ask your husband if he would want his own daughter to take a man back after he abandoned her and their child for YEARS."
"You can love someone and still hold them accountable for their choices."- Cute-Development7287
It's in our second nature to defend and stand up for our family, most of the time.
However, considering the OP's BIL brushed his family aside for another woman, it's very hard to agree he's the one who should be supported in this particular situation.
Even though his reaction to the OP's stance is confusing to the point of unsettling, one at least hopes this experience will scare the OP's husband from ever leaving her for someone else.
At least if he ever wants to set foot in their home, ever again.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp