We all know that family members should have boundaries, such as the kind of relationships that we have with one another.
But every once in a while, there will still be someone who looks inappropriately at a sibling-in-law or cousin-in-law, judged the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit, making it awkward for everyone.
Redditor JennnyAnnyDots was on her first family trip since her sister got married, and she was soon made uncomfortable by how much her brother-in-law stared at her.
But when the newlyweds tried to make her the problem and told her to cover up so that he wouldn't stare, the Original Poster (OP) was shocked.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for not agreeing to sleep in a bra?"
The OP recently went on a family trip for the first time since her sister got married.
"I (22 Female) recently went on a small family trip to celebrate my dad's early retirement."
"A family friend let us borrow their lake house but sleeping arrangements meant that I had to share a room with my sister (24 Female) and her husband (30 Male) in a room with two beds."
"They're newlyweds who married quickly so this is his first time going on a trip with us."
The OP was surprised when her sister confronted her about her appearance.
"I really didn't think it was going to be an issue because, with the whole lake available to us, we wouldn't be spending much time in the rooms."
"The first night, there was no problem. The second night, my sister pulled me aside right before I went to get ready for bed and asked me to change what I was sleeping in because her husband was uncomfortable."
"For context (this might be TMI and I am sorry), I am not a flat-chested woman. It is quite literally the most annoying thing about my life, and I am not sorry that I do not sleep in a bra! That being said, it wasn't like I was sleeping in lingerie. It was just a big t-shirt, but because of how I'm built, you could still tell I was bra-less."
"I've never thought it was a big deal but her husband is rather conservative (in like, all senses of the word)."
The OP tried to politely refuse.
"I politely told my sister no because the only things I brought were A.) swimsuits, which would be even worse; B.) a tight compression sports bra for beach volleyball, which I don't think is even medically advisable to sleep in; and C.) a sweatshirt, which I guess would disguise it more, but it was hot and I didn't want to wear it."
"She pressed me again, and I said no again, pointing out that her husband slept shirtless."
"I don't actually care, but it seemed hypocritical to me, so I said that if I am asked to find a way to cover up more (DESPITE WEARING A SHIRT), he should, too."
"She got mad at me and said I was being ridiculous and staring at her husband (god, no, I would never) and kept raising a stink."
The rest of the family blamed the OP, as well.
"Then she tried to involve the rest of my family, saying it was a simple request and I must be trying to tempt her husband."
"I (loudly) fired back that this wouldn't be a problem if her husband wasn't staring at my chest, which prompted my parents to have me sleep on the couch in the living room the rest of the trip."
"I also made it a point for the rest of the trip to loudly call her husband out if he was looking too long at my chest in my swimsuit (which happened a couple of times before he learned his lesson)."
"I didn't think I overreacted (I might've gotten a bit heated, but it was in line with my sister), but my family has kinda blamed me for ruining my dad's celebration by not letting it go, and I can't help but feel guilty."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some theorized that there were issues going on with the brother-in-law as well as the sister.
"You said he kept staring and you'd call him out until he learned better. If he was so offended by your chest, he wouldn't be staring. He'd send her to make you cover up or ask himself, or even make passive-aggressive comments about you/your state of dress. He wouldn't just be staring at you."
"It sounds to me like she caught him staring and is upset at her husband's wandering eye and like any conservative, is blaming you for his behavior, and therefore, it's you who needs to change."
"Insecure or not, she never had a husband with wandering eyes before, so that'll be why she's never said anything about it until now. She (maybe) wasn't jealous until she found her man more interested in staring at you than her."
"But the wildest thing to me is they made you sleep on the couch. Buddy boy's the one with the issue, so kick his a** out to the living room if he's so uncomfortable with clothed breasts. If anything, you should be the one that's angry, not ask if you're the a**."
"They both basically sexually harassed and body shamed you and then you were punished by being made to sleep on the couch all while he continued to ogle you. As a fellow big tiddie biddie, I'd be f**king furious." - moon_vixen
"Okay, let's say he's conservative. Then f**king stop looking at her bewbs, right. Make eye contact. Look at the ceiling or floor or your wife when talking with SIL."
"As a guy, I'll tell you this, it's very plausible that he used the excuse because he got caught staring."
"I'll give you another perspective. It may not be her sister's insecurity but that she's perhaps annoyed/disgusted/bothered/uncomfortable by her husband's constant peeking. Nothing to do with insecurity. He's staring." - Supra-A90
"Why in God's name would your sister and BIL agree to share a room with you when they know full well that they are prissy perv**ts who stare at their family's chests? If they are this hung up and weird, they should know they need privacy. Did they not realize ahead of time that you had tits?"
"Also, if he's conservative, read him that Bible verse about how it's HIS responsibility to pluck out his own eyes if he's having trouble controlling himself." - wombatIsAngry
"It was the sister with the problem. Not the OP."
"People don't make a huge stink on behalf of someone else. 'Welp, I tried talking to her for you.' He was loving it. He was checking her out in her swimsuit. Sister noticed him checking her out and got jealous."
"The sister was the one with the problem with it."
"And didn't want to blame her new husband for his own wandering eyes."
"'Making him uncomfortable.' Yeah, in his pants." - Omnimpotent
"Is this a pattern in your family? A man says that he's uncomfortable about something that literally doesn't concern him at all, and everyone else just... starts buzzing around like panicked bees?"
"This is, frankly, disgusting. Sleep in a bra? Even people who are relatively small-chested can't wait to get out of their bras already at the end of the workday. It's not comfortable sleepwear."
"He can pluck his wandering eyes out. There's nothing provocative about wearing a sloppy night shirt when sleeping."
"My guess? Your sister is in a shitty marriage and she knows it." - decadecency
After receiving feedback, the OP shared an update in a second post.
"I would like to start this post with the good things: Thank you to everyone who helped. I wasn't feeling much support from my family and was beginning to think that I irrevocably ruined the vacation just because of my (admittedly short) temper and reactions."
"It was nice to read the people who were saying they were proud of me for sticking up for myself and the solidarity amongst women with bodies like mine."
"Sometimes when something happens to you, it can feel like you are the first and only person in the world who has had it happen. It's always comforting to know it is not."
Then the OP shared a difficult update.
"After reading through as many comments as I could, I decided to go low contact with my sister and her husband. I let my sister know that I was going low contact but made sure she knew that if she ever needed a place to stay the night, it would be offered, no questions asked."
"Many of you pointed out that the way my parents handled this was less than stellar. They have always been like this, in the sense that they will take whatever option means we can just keep going on with whatever we were doing."
"Sometimes this has been in favor of me, sometimes in favor of my sister, though after the comments, I have realized it is more often in favor of my sister (though they have said this is because I'm usually the one creating conflict)."
"Yesterday, I called my parents and had a long talk about this. I told them that I am an adult now and as such, I have the ability to make choices such as not coming to family events. If we aren't able to actually talk about things, I'm not sure I will want to keep coming back."
"I felt bad, like I was holding my attendance at family events hostage, but it was a productive conversation. Remains to be seen what will change, if anything, but I'm glad we talked."
Fellow Redditors applauded the OP for standing up for herself.
"As a sister to someone, if I found my significant other had been sexualizing my sister, I would send them to the couch, not my sister. Like what the f**k, he doesn't have any reason to look at my own family (now his family too) like that."
"I am so sorry that you got that type of attention, I can understand that type of harassment, of being reduced to just a part of our body that we didn't decide to have." - ImaginaryDimension36
"Your body, your choice, flat-chested or not, you should wear what you want when asleep, or any time. You are sleeping for comfort."
"I sleep in my birthday suit at home and when on holiday/staying at a hotel will wear pajamas."
"Your sister and brother-in-law are the ones with the problem. I'm glad to see you offered shelter for your sister if it turns out she needed to escape her husband."
"I'm sorry your family didn't have your back on this. Best wishes to you." - Babaychumaylalji
"Just wanted to say that I'm super proud of you! I'm sorry that you had to see the trolls, but that's the Internet for you."
"It sounds like your parents are 'people pleasers' and/or 'don't rock the boat' people. That makes me as sad for them as it does for you (and your sister, to be honest)."
"So I guess you get to break the cycle. Just make sure to carry this lesson into the rest of your life. You can be kind and accommodating without being a doormat!"
"Again, so proud of you! Well done!" - Ladygytha
"Your parents supported you being more put out because he couldn't help but stare at you sexually?"
"What sort of sick f**ks are your parents? What sort of father would support a man ogling his daughter? Your dad failed you and any ruining of his event if his own fault with the help of your perverted mom and sister."
"NTA... show them this post later and see what they say." - Odd_Welcome7940
"God! At 60+ years old, I'm so sick of still hearing that women are being asked to monitor their clothing and their behavior because some id**tic anchild can't behave appropriately."
"I don't swear much but f**k that!"
"You did the right thing, OP. I'm proud of you!" - dekage555
The subReddit was grossed out by how the OP was treated and infuriated when she had to sleep on the couch and her family sided against her.
If the OP was such a "distraction," it was clear that the newly married couple had some things to work out instead of the OP having to cover up more for them.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp