People unnecessarily commenting on women's bodies and bullying them is nothing new, though it is harmful.
It's worse, however, when the comments come from people who are supposed to be family, sympathized the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor Aromatic-Salt-5079 was a young woman who expressed herself partially by dressing in alternative clothing, though none of it was particularly revealing.
When her brother-in-law and his wife complained about her clothes showing too much of her body and complained about her not visiting them enough in the same breath, the Original Poster (OP) thought the reason why was pretty obvious.
She asked the sub:
"Am I overreacting for being upset when my brother-in-law told my husband that I had 'too much boob'?"
The OP didn't feel accepted by her brother-in-law (BIL) and his wife.
"I've (22 Female) never been particularly close with my brother-in-law (30 Male) or his wife, but my husband (23 Male) is very, very close with them, as they lived together for around seven years."
"He feels indebted to them as they rescued him from a difficult household situation involving other family members and substance abuse, which I understand."
"However... I get the sense that they never really approved of me. They are religious and traditional, and I dress alternative/dye my hair. In fact, one of the first things BIL ever said to my husband when we started dating was, 'You like that hair?' It was pink at the time."
u/Aromatic-Salt-5079/Reddit
While the OP's husband used to defend her look, he surprised her when he agreed with recent comments.
"I tolerate most of their comments, but recently, my BIL had my husband meet him at a restaurant for a 'talk.'"
"My BIL told him that he and his wife had had a discussion and decided that I have 'too much boob' (his exact words, according to my husband), and they don't like the way I dress."
"They also do not want me around their eight-year-old daughter if I dress like that, because they don't want her to 'think that's okay.'"
"When my husband came home and told me about this, I was so embarrassed, I started sobbing."
"My husband got annoyed with me because he can 'understand where they're coming from' and thinks it wasn't unreasonable to say."
"My BIL also told him that they were upset I didn't seem to want to come around very often, so I told my husband that stuff like this is exactly why I don't feel comfortable around them, and he got angry and left the room."
u/Aromatic-Salt-5079/Reddit
The OP wasn't sure what she should do about the complaints.
"I have DDDs. I can't exactly help the amount of boob I have because no matter what I wear, they will be there! I don't want to start wearing turtlenecks or a binder every time I have to see them."
"And I've never dressed inappropriately around them on purpose, ever! I added some pictures of my outfits for reference."
"Am I overreacting for being upset, both at BIL for saying that and at my husband for taking their side?"
u/Aromatic-Salt-5079/Reddit
The OP wasn't sure what to expect from them anymore.
"I've seen BIL and his wife in person since then, and they always act super nice to my face and never mention the way I dress or anything, which makes me feel even weirder that they forced my husband to say that to me and then act like it never happened."
"I almost would've preferred they just say it to my face. Just being around them gives me so much anxiety now because I feel like they're judging everything I do."
"AIO?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NOR: Not Overreacting
- YOR: You're Overreacting
Some were suspicious that the brother-in-law (BIL) was trying to shift blame onto the OP when he was the one with conflicting feelings.
"NOR. These people suck, and you have super cute, appropriate dresses. There's nothing inappropriate about any of those photos."
"Big boobs are ALWAYS prominent (spoken from experience). Turtleneck and the like seem to highlight them even more than the dresses in the photos (how is that even possible? I think it might be devil magic, lol)" - sparksgirl1223
"NOR. I have a 30G/H, and it doesn't matter whether I wear 'modest,' loose clothing or whether I wear more form-fitting clothing. It is always obvious that I have a large chest. What tf is OP supposed to do about something she has no control over?"
"If my assumption that they're Christians is correct, then according to what should be a part of their beliefs, OP's body was made perfect in the eyes of God, including her chest, and that she shouldn't be ashamed of it."
"If they actually practiced their religion, then they wouldn't judge her by saying she has 'too much boob,' because they should believe that this is what was given to her by God."
"But of course, in typical religious nut fashion, they conveniently forget the whole 'made perfect in God's image' part and judge people based on immutable characteristics." - shrimp_sticks
"NOR. She doesn't look overtly sexual to someone with a normal brain and no personal issues. Do her boobs look good, absolutely, but that's very clearly in the 'good boobs in cute outfit that they add to the beauty of' kind of way rather than 'this person is definitely trying to turn me on' way."
"I'm a bisexual woman, and while I definitely appreciate her beauty, I don't feel like my attention is in any particular way guided to them; boobs just kinda exist, and while they look good, they are in no one's face intentionally, perfectly tasteful."
"I suspect BIL is turned on by OP's overall beauty and cannot deal with it, so is trying to shift the blame on her." - No-Hovercraft-455
"Ask your BIL WHY he’s checking you out and WHY he thinks that’s appropriate? Put the creepiness back where it belongs."
"Starting with her husband. 'Do you see that the creepiest, most inappropriate part of this situation is when you were talking critically with your brother about my body?'"
"Lurking in the background of our text, here, is that the brother-in-law has surely first conversed about this with his wife. Maybe she put him up to the whole thing? You think? Beneath the smothering religiosity, there are some seriously 'toxic' instincts happening here. Time for OP to create a fire break." - Attentions_Bright12
"Tell him that if his eyes are causing him to sin, Jesus told him what to do. He'll know what I mean."
"People can hold their own beliefs about modesty, but at the point it is used to control others, it’s no longer about their views but how other people not following them make them feel."
"I bet the BIL wants those boobies, and your SIL is jealous because she too is sexualizing what she views as causing her husband to have impure thoughts. Or maybe she’s having a little just as well if she’s that repressed!"
"There’s a reason they’re both worried about your boobs and not focusing on their own lives and how they choose to live it."
"NOR. They are a**es. Your outfits and your body are lovely. Turn it up a notch around them just for fun and then see how they handle it."
"Then tell your husband that you and your body are not his to control, and you never want an opinion on either unless you ask. If he isn’t okay with that, then go flaunt yourself elsewhere and find someone who both treats you amazing and is happy to have a smokin’ girlfriend or wife!"
"Also, given your handle, I assume you both may be into gaming? I guarantee you there are a lot of gamers in this world who would be kind, sweet, and love your body!" - EmmerdoesNOTrepme
Others also called out the OP's husband for not standing up up for her against the judgmental couple.
"Why did your husband see fit to TELL you this?? NOR." - luckyartie
"So they want you to dress and act exactly the way they like and start negging when you are simply existing and enjoying your life? Hmmmmmmmm."
"Why did your husband marry you in the first place if he agrees with your style being too much or inappropriate?"
"That loser should back you up, not tear you down. Da**it."
"Also, your BIL should mind his own business. It’s your body, your life. Go enjoy it! You deserve better, hun. NOR." - j9_reddit
"Girl."
"'My husband got annoyed with me because he can 'understand where they're coming from' and thinks it wasn't unreasonable to say.'"
"Your BIL isn't the problem here. Your husband is. You're underreacting to the fact that your husband effectively agreed with his BIL on his f**ked up view of you. You don't need this s**t. Have some self-respect." - delinaX
"I bet he was trying to neg OP in some way and lower her self-confidence, and probably he expected special thanks for tolerating her while his brother would not have, and it backfired because Op wasn't pathetic enough to lap up the intended guilt."
"I can find zero reason why a good man with no malicious intent would put his partner down while parroting insulting crap from other men that she is not dating and doesn't intend to date."
"The whole thing smells of an attempt to drag her down and make her feel less than so she's in her rightful place and easier to control by the whole family and him." - SquirrelLuvsChipmunk
"He told her because he agrees with them. So instead of backing her up and telling them to get over themselves, he doubled down on HER."
"She doesn’t have an in-law problem; she has a husband problem. I could not be with someone who didn’t support me. My bras shouldn't be more supportive of me than my partner." - OperationSeveral3756
After receiving feedback, the OP shared an update.
"Hello everyone! First off, I wanna say I did not expect the sheer amount of responses."
"A lot of you were so kind, and I really appreciate all the support and the genuine concern for my well-being, especially from other women who have been in my situation!"
"I feel much less alone, and I definitely don't feel crazy for being upset anymore. I saw some requests for an update, so here's a small one."
The OP and her husband came up with some solutions.
"I talked to my husband about everything. The first thing he did was apologize. He feels really bad about how he reacted in the moment and recognizes that what he did was wrong."
"He told me that he knows we're supposed to be a team, and if anything like that happens again, he promises to defend me. He also reassured me that he loves my body and the way I dress, and he's not ashamed of it."
"He was never an advocate for me covering up all the time, just around BIL's family. That's the part that seemed 'reasonable' to him. He even said if I want to show off more next time, he'll be supportive! Hahaha."
"So I am not going to divorce him, sorry to disappoint. I saw a lot of people saying I should, but we haven't even been married for a year yet! And this is his first offense, so to speak. He did defend me from the pink hair comment when that happened!! Sorry if that wasn't clear."
"Like I said in some comments, we got MARRIED young because I'm chronically ill and needed the stability of someone with a consistent job and health insurance. But that's not why I'm WITH him. I would still be with him regardless, because I love him!"
"He has a lot of really good qualities and always makes an effort to take care of me no matter what. He works an eight-hour physical job, he cleans, he helps cook, he indulges all of my whims, and buys me flowers often."
"He also is a human being (we're also both young, and I was his first relationship), and human beings make mistakes. He apologized multiple times, and I believe that it's genuine. I even showed him my original post after we talked, and he wasn't upset. He agreed everyone had made a good point and promised to do better."
However, the OP was prepared to stand up for herself if needed.
"That being said... I'm not going to ignore the advice I saw. If he goes back on his word, or if something like this happens again and he does not defend me, then I'm not going to put up with it. I will leave."
"I'm not wholly dependent on him. I have a great relationship with my family and could always go live with them again for a while if I needed to."
"I will also never stop dressing the way I like or ever EVER change my style/appearance for someone else! I'm happy with the way I look."
"As for my BIL and SIL... My husband explained a bit more about the incident to me. They did not meet for lunch JUST to discuss my boobs!! They were just meeting to catch up, and that's something that came up. Which is still a little weird to me."
"But my husband said that my BIL had mentioned it out of concern (in a Catholic way) for my husband to make sure he was okay with how I dress (which is kinda nuts), on top of the concern about me influencing my BIL's daughter."
"My husband also told me that BIL hadn't said this with the specific instructions for him to go and tell me about it... But my husband didn't wanna keep it a secret from me, so he told me everything, which he also feels bad for doing in the blunt way he did."
The OP felt less nervous about seeing her in-laws again in the future.
"I'm going to see BIL and SIL this weekend. I don't think I'm gonna confront them about this then, as I've already seen them a couple of times since, and I feel like that would be an awkward thing to mention at a party! Especially now that I know it wasn't specifically said with the intention to reach me in that way."
"But if something else happens, I will stand up for myself, and if it's really bad, I'll update again."
"Thank you again to everyone who took the time to respond and check in. I appreciate the well wishes, and I feel so much better now! I'm really glad my husband and I were able to get on the same page."
"Next time my In-laws are rude to me, I'll have the courage to stand up to it, and that's all thanks to you guys!"
Not only did the subReddit reassure the OP that what she was wearing was fine, but they were also extremely concerned about the company the OP was keeping, especially given the current political climate.
Just because her husband defended her hair when they started dating did not mean that he would support her in the present; it could easily be one of those situations where he revealed himself and his values slowly enough to convince her to marry her, only confirming who he really is once she was "trapped."
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp