Content Warning: Addiction, Sobriety Journey, Pawned Family Heirlooms
We all make mistakes in our lives, some of which are pretty hard to come back from and make up for.
That can be especially true if we're going through something difficult like an addiction, empathized the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit, but that doesn't excuse the behavior entirely.
One of Redditor Solid_Reason_3735's daughters struggled with addiction and did multiple things that really hurt her family, leading members to either go no contact with her or set firm boundaries with her.
When she demanded to use her late mother's wedding dress, just like her older sister had, the Original Poster (OP) refused, stating that her late mother's boundary had been to not let her have anything else, including use of her wedding dress.
They asked the sub:
"AITAH for not allowing my daughter to wear her late mom's wedding dress, even though I let her sister wear it?"
The OP's daughter's life when downhill when she left for college.
"I have four kids. This is about my older-middle child, Abby. Abby was an addict. She went off to college and came back in the first semester an addict."
"Soon after, she dropped out of college and got much worse."
"My late wife and I tried to get her into rehab, but she would just run the first day."
"Her relationship with the rest of the family deteriorated very quickly. She was soon kicked out of our homes permanently when she was 20."
Abby ruined her relationship with her mother before her mother died from cancer.
"My wife soon got cancer, and we stopped giving money altogether to Abby because it needed to go to the treatment."
"Abby broke into our home and ransacked it. This included heirloom pieces that were passed down from my wife's mother. She also left our doors open and our two cats escaped."
"We never found them. This broke my wife, and she started to go downhill after."
"Then and since, I have spent many years trying to track down the stuff. I have found two of the entire collection, and they will be going to my two other daughters (my oldest and my youngest). I feel really bad for my son because he literally has nothing of his mother's (he's between Abby's age and my youngest daughter's)."
"And there's no replacing those cats. My wife lost her 20-year-old cat that day, and my youngest daughter lost her cat, both of which broke my wife. My daughter's been no contact with Abby since then. It's all very hard to forgive."
The OP's late wife said enough was enough before she passed.
"My wife made it clear that Abby has gotten her inheritance already and that she wants nothing else to go to her."
"She was very clear not to allow her to have anything else or borrow anything, and she even mentioned the wedding dress as an example during that conversation."
"My wife passed, and Abby didn't even come to the funeral."
The OP stuck to their late wife's wishes.
"Abby is now 26 and has been clean for a year. She is planning on getting married next year."
"She called me and asked if she could use Mom's wedding dress, and I told her no."
"This started an argument about how it was unfair because my oldest daughter did wear it last year (Abby was not invited to the wedding)."
"She claims it is unfair and that she was her mother, too. I informed her that she already got many things from her mother and pawned them off for money."
"I need an outside opinion. I can't go to my family because everyone has strong opinions about Abby."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that they were right to honor their late wife's wishes.
"Your wife told you, from her own mouth, that Abby gets nothing else. Don't give or loan her anything. There is your answer."
"My father wanted to be cremated, he'd registered for him and my mom to have space for their urns in the Veterans' cemetery maybe a year before he passed. (Mom had said for YEARS she wants to be cremated. Not sure why he decided on it for himself, but he did.)"
"His sister kept harassing my mom, telling her to bury him in the cemetery where their parents are. 'If it's a money issue, I'll contribute.' She even came to me to tell me to talk to my mom and get her to change her mind."
"Uhhhh... No? My mom was simply following my dad's wishes. We didn't know that he'd set up everything for the cemetery until I came across the paperwork. I jumped out of my chair and yelled, 'AH HA!' like you see in movies, lol."
"I took a photo of the document and sent it to my aunt. 'This shows my father's wishes. Do not bother my mom about the burial again.'"
"Even after he passed and was cremated, his sister still tried to get my mom to bury him in the cemetery she wanted him in. Nope! He is exactly where he chose to be. In the Veterans' cemetery. Unless my mom says she wants something else done with her remains, she'll be in her own urn next to him."
"It doesn't matter how long someone is gone. Their wishes were their wishes. They're not here to change them, so they should be respected and followed. Abby does not get the dress." - nicholaiia
"Nope, you are following your late wife's wishes. She would absolutely not want Abby to wear that dress."
"I would tell Abby that once she returns everything she stole/pawned during her addict phase, she still would get nothing of her mother's." - Catfish1960
"NTA. Your wife was clear. Abby can buy her own dress." - No_Jaguar67
"You are NTA. I'm sorry for your loss and everything that's happened. You would be the a**hole if you gave her the dress."
"Your wife was clear. You can see it as a kind of verbal will, if she didn't have one otherwise. Abby stole her inheritance already."
"She is not to take or borrow anything of your wife's again. I wouldn't waver on that if she were clean for 20 years and you trusted her totally. It was your wife's wish, you must honor it." - magog12
"NTA. What has she done to earn back any form of trust? Yes, she's sober, but sobriety doesn't mean your relationship goes back to how it was."
"She robbed you, straight up, she stole several items with huge sentimental value from her mother. Why trust her with one of the few things you have left to share with her siblings?"
"Don't let her have the dress. I doubt she would do anything to it, I don't believe her to be evil, but it's the principle. She doesn't deserve to wear something of such importance to your family." - HvaVarDetDuSaForNo
Others weren't convinced that Abby even did enough to be forgiven by her family.
"What did Abby do to be forgiven? Does she try to pay you back or track the collections? Did she apologize?"
"Being sober for a year doesn't absolve her of her mistakes. IF a drunk driver killed someone, or a drunk person stole and harmed people, a judge wouldn't say, 'Oh, they are sober for a while; let's forgive them now.' They'd still be punished, have to offer a public statement or three, do community service, go to therapy and get clean, etc."
"Abby sounds entitled. She does not even value you still being in her life."
"If I were in your place, I would not go to the wedding and would go no contact with her. Don't try to force any relationship between the siblings and her, or that may backfire on you." - DeliciousLeader7639
"NTA. I have a drug addicted sister who has done nothing but cause family grief for over a decade now. If she got clean, good for her, but it doesn't magically erase the repeated BS she put people through."
"A year clean is terrific, but it's going to take a lot more time and effort to rebuild all the trust she has broken and hurt she has caused." - whenitrainsitpours4
"NTA ransacking your house, effectively killing your cats, and accelerating the death of her own mother. That was unfair. This is just the consequence of her actions."
"Actions have ripples, and some things can't be undone no matter how much time passes. You can cheer her on for staying clean without rewriting history or ignoring what happened. Forgiveness doesn't automatically mean full access to everything that was lost."
"I hope OP has a good security system. She may be clean, but she doesn't seem remorseful. She may break in again to get the dress." - Outrageous-Arm1945
"NTA. It's also a red flag that she's only been clean for a year and is already engaged."
"If it were ten years later, and she was clean, had made some amends, and was marrying someone who never knew her that way, maybe. But this falls well within mom's 'nope.'" - Sheila_Monarch
"That is even more reason to not let her use the dress, in that case. It would probably ruin the dress in the eyes of your youngest, and she deserves to wear her mother's dress without the memory being tarnished by a sister she doesn't have in her life anymore."
"You're making the right decision by staying firm with your no. I wish you and your family all the best."
"Even if your youngest has no desire to wear it, which is fine, all of the rest of your children should be able to look at your wife's wedding dress without the memories being associated with the sibling that hurt the family so much." - Sunshine030209
While the subReddit could acknowledge that maybe Abby was working on changing and had been lean for a year, which is an accomplishment, they also didn't think that what Abby had done would necessarily just heal with time.
Rather, she needed to prove that she had actually changed and would not do the terrible things to her family again that she'd done in the past.
That also included honoring her late mother's wishes, as well as her younger sister's boundaries, who might never let her back in.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp