Roommates often seem like a great idea.
That's because, in this day and age, roommates tend to be a necessity in order to save money.
But not every roommate idea is a good one.
Some of the most stressful can be rooming with family.
Case in point...
Redditor LetsTryRedditAgain wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for slowly throwing away all of my sister's belongings?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"Ok so after I (28 M[ale]) got kicked out of my apartment and I needed a new place to stay."
"My sister (24 F[emale]) is living at her friend's house and says they are cool with me crashing for the summer."
"I only need about three months anyways."
"When I show up the place is a MESS and even worse the room I was supposed to take is a dumping ground for my sister's stuff."
"The kitchen is cluttered and disgusting."
"The bathroom is cluttered, moldy, and stinky."
"I decided to stay anyways because hey free rent."
"Over the course of the past month, I have been cleaning and decluttering everywhere I could."
"I can't believe her friend puts up with her actually."
"I can she is also responsible for the mess."
"I have thrown away countless cups, plates, canned food, candy, pasta, coffee, tea, hair accessories, cheap rings, sandals, Tupperware, trash, clothes, hats, countless socks, etc."
"I know it sounds like this stuff could have been donated but all of her clutter comes from cheap dollar stores."
"They both love having me as a roommate because they think I am handy. I am."
"Slowly my sister has been noticing her stuff missing."
"She has questioned me and even called me asking if I have seen her shoes or whatever."
"I just deny seeing it and say I only throw away expired food, duplicates, or broken stuff."
"I am able to get away with throwing stuff out because I only do it on trash day. lol."
"Yesterday I messed up though because I forgot it wasn't trash day."
"I had filled the trashcan with a bunch of my sister's clothes and I was too lazy to take the trash out."
"She rarely uses the kitchen trashcan anyways since she doesn't clean up after herself."
"I was wrong and she noticed."
"I came home to an emptied-out kitchen trashcan in the middle of the kitchen and she demanded I explain myself."
"I simply said that I had a 'trash box' and a 'good box' and that I emptied out the wrong box while I was decluttering the laundry room."
"She didn't buy it."
"I am doing her a favor and her friend a favor but they just don't see it."
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP WAS the A**hole.
"YTA. How would you like it if somebody else threw away YOUR stuff?"
"Just because they happen to think it is not usable?"
"If your sister is noticing, that means you are throwing away things she was ready to use." ~ Unusual-Hat-6819
"If your sister is noticing, that means you are throwing away things she was ready to use."
"I mean, not necessarily?"
"My great-grandma had a TERRIBLE hoarding problem."
"She had things piled up in every room of her tiny little house dating back to the 1960s, but if you so much as moved something to get through a room, she would notice even if she hadn't touched the thing in years."
"Hoarders are just like that."
"OP is still YTA, but not because 'his sister was going to use that.'"
"He's TA because that's not how you deal with a hoarding situation and he may have inadvertently just made things worse." ~ Pantherdraws
"OP is the AH because he was OVERSTEPPING his boundaries - clutter doesn't always equal hoarding - but this is not for anyone here to judge at all."
"If her roommate didn't have a problem with it, then end of the story stay out of their business."
"How does throwing away clothes, rings, and sandals even sound reasonable to anyone?" ~ No_Independence9170
"You must be throwing my things out of here..."
"Said the hoarder to the thief..."
"There's too much confusion..."
"I can't get no relief!"
"YTA though. OP is a thief and not helping the way he thinks he's helping."
"Love how OP is 28, has no job and no place to stay, and yet sister is the one with the problem." ~ ErikLovemonger
"YTA. And a liar!"
"Okay, the place is messy."
"But you don't know what is important to your sister and what is not."
"I can understand throwing out expired food. But not objects."
"Instead you took it upon yourself to clear out stuff you didn't consider important without taking your sister's feelings into consideration."
"Even worse, you lied about it!"
"Your sister noticed things missing."
"That was the time to come clean."
"Instead you denied even seeing the things that you were busily throwing away."
"It wasn't your place to do that."
"You weren't doing anyone a 'favor.'"
"You were being a bit of a bully."
"Admit what you did to your sister. Apologize."
"Offer to replace items you've thrown out."
"Say that when you clean in the future, you'll put items in a box for her to sort through later."
"And do her a favor by moving out as soon as you can."
"You don't sound very trustworthy." ~ stroppo
"YTA. You're literally throwing away her belongings because… you felt like it?"
"Can't be bothered to ask where they go?"
"I understand wanting to live in a clean environment, but you don't get to actually dispose of someone's shoes/clothes/jewelry, etc."
"You cling there for FREE- the amount of entitlement here is mind-blowing." ~ SpicyTurtle38
"YTA. Come on, you know you're the a**hole."
"I get where you are coming from in wanting to clean and declutter, but you are obviously throwing away things she uses."
"This also isn't going to teach her how to not be messy or over-collect."
"It's just going to reinforce her behavior." ~ XxQueenOfSwordsXx
"YTA. It's one thing to throw away cheap items, out-of-date foods, and junk."
"It's another to throw out someone's clothes that, apparently, are wearable."
"I get it, they may be old and dirty."
"But it's not as if they couldn't be washed and reused." ~ Individual_Ad_9213
"YTA. You've been staying there rent-free, and you repay them by throwing out her stuff?"
"You're not a good roommate, you're not 'handy.'"
"You're absolutely the AH."
"Don't throw out other people's things." ~ Swirlyflurry
"All of this!"
"Also to add, based on some of OP's comments, it's not OP's decision to make that his sister has too much stuff or won't miss it since she's just now noticing stuff is gone so it's ok to throw it away."
"It doesn't matter. It's not OP's call."
"It's not his belongings! YTA OP." ~ Pixiedust027
"Okay trash is trash, I understand that, but on the other hand you shouldn't throw away things that are not yours."
"That's a no-no."
"They let you live there for free and then you took their stuff and threw it away."
"That's bad. YTA." ~ Coryonline
"YTA Wow. They let you move in FOR FREE when you were homeless."
"And you treat their home as if nothing is of value."
"Just because YOU don't care, that doesn't erase other people's feelings about their home and belongings."
"You are a liar, a thief, and a gaslighting bully to the people who lifted you up. For shame." ~ curious382
"YTA. She is doing you a favor and it's great that you're cleaning but, dude, these are possessions they own and you are a guest."
"As long as you're throwing it away, make a pile of clothes and personal items and at least you've tidied up and they can choose to get their stuff or leave it in that pile."
"I mean 'hey free rent' shouldn't cost sister and roommate their belonging just because you want to dictate the conditions of your free stay." ~ catskilkid
"YTA some of that was reasonable - her clothes and stuff are not."
"Stealing someone's things isn't a favor."
"She did you a favor though by asking this friend if you could stay there… and you respond by being disrespectful." ~ joeswastedtime
"Jeez, instead of robbing your sister and lying about it, you could have spent that time job-hunting."
"She helped you; you would have been homeless if it weren't for her."
"And you responded by robbing her."
"You could have at least set her clothes and shoes aside in bags rather than throw them out altogether."
"She should throw YOU out. YTA." ~ ComprehensiveBand586
OP came back with a few edits...
"Okay, people I am the a**hole."
"After reading many comments and arguing with y'all I see it now."
"I still need time to think about what to do next but I for sure need to apologize and offer to replace everything."
"What I have learned: I was essentially stealing."
"They didn't ask for my help."
"My actions make hoarding worse (not sure if it's full-on hoarding but I am not helping)."
"They are doing me a massive favor, not the other way around and I am a guest."
"The detail I left out: I have no job."
"I got kicked out of the last apartment because the landlord wanted her daughter to move in closer to her."
"I am sleeping on the couch because that's the only space available at the moment."
Well, OP, Reddit doesn't appear to be on the same page as you.
You're a guest.
Probably best to be on your best behavior.
From your later edits, it sounds like you understand.
Hopefully, you can all move forward.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp