Marriage proposals are a defining life moment for many.
They used to be simple.
A quick "Will you? - Yes or No?" while down on one knee and bam.
No fuss, no muss.
Over time a lot of people have made them a spectacle, splashed all over social media.
And when it's on social media, people are going to notice.
Redditor Olympiansullivan509 wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback. So naturally, they came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
They asked:
"AITA for spoiling my [G]irl[F]riend's cousin's engagement?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"This happened back on July 4th, but people are still sore about it."
"My girlfriend's cousin (let's call her Miranda) invited us to her place for a BBQ."
"A few days prior, Miranda posted a picture on Instagram of her and her B[oy]F[riend], George."
"It was a photo of him on one knee proposing to her. "
"The caption read something like 'I said yes! Can't wait to marry my love.'"
"She has a lot of followers, and a lot of people liked it and commented with congratulations."
"My girlfriend and I both liked it and commented as well."
"A few days later was the BBQ."
"George and most of her family were already there."
"After we got settled, we both said congratulations to them both."
"Everything went silent."
"Miranda, George, and their parents looked horrified."
"Miranda's parents said, "'You told them?!'"
"And she shook her head."
"Of course, everyone around them was surprised and said things like 'You guys are getting married? - Congratulations!'"
"My GF and I instantly knew that the rest of their family didn't know yet."
"It was so awkward, and Miranda and George seemed very uncomfortable."
"Later, Miranda's mom angrily took us aside and told us that it was supposed to be a surprise."
"George was planning on doing ANOTHER proposal at the BBQ, this time for the family."
"We explained that they already announced their engagement online, and the mom told us that most of Miranda's family doesn't use social media."
"Apparently the first one was just for friends and the internet."
"Later, George ended up proposing again anyway, but it felt so awkward."
"It seemed like it was supposed to be a big moment."
"The fact that everyone already knew kind of ruined it."
"We felt so bad."
"No one really talked to us for the rest of the party."
"Miranda and George wouldn't even look at us."
"When we left, we talked about how we shouldn't have said anything."
"Then again, we thought that it would've been weird if we congratulated them online and not acknowledged it when we saw them in person."
"We've been talking about whether we should have said anything."
"My GF said no one from that side of the family has spoken to her since."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA, or in this case, are we?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. They announced it. "
"They then in turn did NOT tell you 'Please keep this a secret because we have a surprise planned for my family.'"
"This whole thing just REEKS."
"It reeks of attention-hungry people who make the same 'announcement' repeatedly for likes and kerfuffle."
"It's also quite odd and awkward to me that someone would propose twice and obviously you weren't the only ones at the party who knew because as soon as you said something Miranda's parents realized you knew something they also knew."
"Then they... still went on with a show proposal even though it was no longer a surprise at that point? Weeeeird."
"The theatrics and desire for an over-the-top show are SO performative, which takes it into a really weird place."
"If they wanted it to be a surprise to anyone at the party, the answer was to not announce it in advance, this is so basic it shouldn't need to be said... but they couldn't do that because they were sooo eager for likes."
"If I were you I'd be kind of pissed."
"You were set up to fail and chastised for doing NOTHING wrong, and no one even stuck up for you, and now your GF is getting the silent treatment from her own family for having the audacity to congratulate her cousin on the news she (cousin) had already announced." ~ owls_and_cardinals
"Honestly, some people are too short-sighted to see the folly in what they were planning."
"Basically, they had too many plates spinning for this to work as it only took one person forgetting to keep their peace or being forgotten on their list of conspirators."
"The real problem though is that it's dumb and fake, just do a general announcement accept your cheers and congratulations, and move on in life."
"Sadly, Some people have to be the center of attention constantly."
"I foresee a big crash in their future when no one is giving them Internet Klout anymore." ~ False-Importance-741
"GAWD. Whodathunk there would be a postal show following the proposal. Good grief."
"Like the bachelor/ette party that morphed into a vacation for a week, and asking someone to the prom turned into a promposal and the old gender reveal, and the million dollar weddings, and all that happy hogwash."
"Honestly. sorry... didn't mean to rant..."
"NTA OP. "
"I don't know how they thought they were mind-melding enough to get that message to you."
"If they would have bothered to warn people it woulda been nice."
"Not your fault at all." ~ PickleNotaBigDill
"If keeping it a surprise was so important, they shouldn't have posted it on social media."
"They could have waited to post it, but they chose to play the victim card instead."
"It's their own damn fault what happened."
"You are so NTA." ~ NightWitch65
"NTA! They didn't tell y'all ahead of time to not tell the family."
"You both didn't do any wrong!"
"They put it on social media."
"I would be the 1st one to say Congratulations to them at the BBQ."
"It's human nature!"
"So…again, y'all are NTA." ~ Any-Maintenance5828
"Also, I would consider it rude to NOT congratulate someone, especially if they already know you know."
"Then it would seem like you're disproving of their news."
"So I think OP is NTA on a whole other level since they were being super polite by congratulating the newly engaged couple." ~ JellyfishApart5518
"NTA - I'm sorry but it's posted online, my assumption is everyone knows UNLESS specifically specified in the post.'
"Could you imagine having to comb through a person's followers before you congratulate them for something they posted on social media previously? C'mon."
"Also is it common to redo a proposal for other people?"
"It probably felt awkward because the whole thing was."
"At that point, it seems scripted and not genuine."
"I can understand 2 wedding ceremonies but 2 proposals where you are supposed to be a little shocked or surprised?"
"That's weird to me." ~ -Jewelz-
"I think the re-doing if not common, makes perfect sense."
"Public proposals should never be a surprise - you already discussed marriage, likely already looked at rings, yadda yadda."
"It seems a nice gesture to propose in private, but then make a show for relatives."
"You know, EXACTLY like a wedding does."
"The social media thing was cousins' flop."
"If it was a secret - just announce it later?!? That's it."
"Social media announcement is obviously the last step, it was obvious to OP."
"Who is NTA." ~ Subjective_Box
"It's kind of weird, because which day were they 'officially' engaged?"
"I don't understand how they expected to keep their stories straight. NTA." ~ FancyPantsDancer
"Absolutely NTA."
"Once folks post something to social media, all bets are off."
"You can't be expected to know who does and doesn't see their social media activity." ~ wesmorgan1
"NTA. How were you supposed to know he was going to propose again at the BBQ?"
"If Miranda had wanted it kept quiet she should have waited to post about it on Instagram until after the BBQ." ~ Smarterthanuthink867
"NTA. Seriously."
"Some people seem to miss the fact that you can do something and take your pics, then... post it online later!"
"In fact, you could take pics of the first proposal, then pics with the family, and post them together as if it all happened the same day- which would dodge some other likely issues here." ~ NapalmAxolotl
"NTA at all."
"They made a public announcement where people could see and expected no one to mention it?"
"If they really wanted it to be a surprise they should have said that in their post."
"Totally on them." ~ janiemackxxx
"Well, I hope you've learned your lesson and will keep your mouth shut when you see the birth announcement on Insta for their first child lest you ruin the surprise at the next family barbecue where Miranda will lay down in between the potato salad and chicken and George will pull a 6-week old baby out of her."
"The whole 'second proposal' is so performative and seems calculated to maximize attention both online and off."
"The fact that you were supposed to predict this was happening is just ugh. NTA." ~ JeepersCreepers74
"NTA, obviously."
"You can't be responsible for ruining a surprise that you didn't know about." ~ warp-and-woof
"NTA. She posted it on social media and told the whole world and didn't bother telling her immediate family. Wow." ~ OldGuto
"NTA if you post it online you have announced it. Good grief." ~ camkats
OP came back with an update...
"Thank you so much for all of your responses!"
"My GF and I read through them and we feel so much better!"
"It is so true, they were very unreasonable for expecting us to know that their engagement was a secret to the family, despite having already told the internet."
"We analyzed their initial Instagram post, and nowhere did it even hint that her family didn't know yet."
"My GF told me that Miranda was always very entitled and that if she ever did anything wrong, her mom would always somehow find someone else to blame."
"GF told me that Miranda's Sweet 16 was more extravagant than an actual wedding, so we can only imagine what her own wedding is going to be like."
"We're perfectly fine if those people don't want to speak to us because we definitely don't want to speak to them."
"Again, thank you for all of your responses!"
It's always nice to hear about the resolutions.
OP, Reddit clearly had your back from the jump.
You had no malicious intent or way of knowing it was a secret.
Someone may need to explain to the happy couple that secrets aren't usually public.
Reddit would probably love to hear your responses to the wedding invitation as well, should the two of you receive any.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp