An elderly Redditor is a widower and a father who is having a tough time dealing with his daughter and her two children.
The daughter—who is being referred to here as "Laura"—had formerly been in a "toxic" marriage ravaged by infidelity and drug addiction but has since cleaned up her act after going to rehab.
But when she didn't remain on the straight and narrow, the father was forced to make a tough decision.
So he visited the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit to see what strangers had to say by asking:
"AITA for refusing to let my daughter see her children?"
The Original Poster (OP) expressed he was "very conflicted about what's happening with my family and am desperate for some judgment."
"I am (70 M[ale]). I was with my wonderful wife Susan from 1967-2020 when she sadly died also aged 70 earlier this year. I was absolutely devastated."
"We were together for over 50 wonderful years and during our time together, we had 2 children: Tim (45) and Laura 44). Susan and I tried our best as parents and gave them good childhoods I think. They were well loved and never went without."
"Tim did well for himself, went to university and got a job with the degree he studied and is married and has 3 kids (10-15)."
"Laura however, went in the complete opposite direction of her brother. She went to university hellbent on studying medicine but dropped out at 20 after meeting a boyfriend, John. He had no ambition in life and dragged Laura into a world filled with drugs, alcohol and other unsavoury things."
"Susan and I were not impressed with the lifestyle John and Laura were living. I was not a fan of John but tried my best for Laura as she was my daughter and she proclaimed to love him."
"The relationship was incredibly toxic, involving cheating and abuse on both sides and constant drug binges. The relationship was on and off for years and produced Laura's 2 kids (16F and 10F)."
"She stayed with John until her youngest was about 3 and kicked him out. She seemed to finally want to beat her addictions and I even paid for her to go to rehab and I looked after the kids wirh Susan."
"Laura came out a changed woman and even turned into a decent mother."
Unfortunately, Laura's improvement was shortlived, and the OP became concerned for the well-being of his grandchildren.
"This lasted only 2 years where she got back with John, got back to alcohol and drugs and became a danger to the girls."
"Social services took them away after a dangerous incident, John and Laura weren't allowed contact and both of them eventually signed away their parental rights. Susan and I became the girl's guardians."
"Both my granddaughters were traumatised but Susan and I tried our best. They eventually settled and became happy and didn't seem to be bothered by not having their parents. Tim also helped out greatly and the girls have a great relationship with their uncle and cousins."
"Laura has recently surfaced after about 4 years and reached out to me on Facebook. I learnt John had passed away, she went back to rehab and even has a stable job and is living with a trusted friend."
"She also wants to see the girls. I told her I was happy she got her life back but that she really messed up as a mother. I talked to the girls and the oldest downright refused to see her and the youngest cried at night when she learnt her mother was back and doesn't want to see her mom."
"I told Laura that the girls didn't want to see her and I was sorry. She has since called me an AH and says I'm refusing her children. Tim says Laura is the AH as she chose drugs and drink over being a mum. I'm really conflicted by this all."
"I'm just an old man and I don't want to upset anyone."
In an edit, the OP clarified:
"The youngest cried and doesn't want to see her mom. I never once lied to her and said her mom didn't want to see her."
Anonymous strangers on the internet were asked if and where guilt belongs by declaring:
NTA - Not The A**hole
YTA - You're The A**hole
ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
NAH - No A**holes Here
"NTA. Laura made her bed and has to lie in it. Social services don't just take your kids away for no reason."
"You're doing what you believe is right for your granddaughters and you even asked them what you wanted. You sound like a loving grandpa!" – [deleted]
"Yup. NTA, and once she had her rights terminated, they were no longer her children. The fact that OP asked his granddaughters if they wanted to see their mom was a courtesy he didn't need to provide her." – elvaholt
"Definitely NTA, but please get those children into therapy. You sound like an absolutely wonderful FATHER, because that is what you are, to those girls."
"However, they have experienced trauma in their lives and it is better to get them help now before they start having serious relationships of their own and go down the same path as their egg donor."
"Also be cautious about your daughter trying to contact them on her own. Do they have social media accounts? Does she know where they go to school? If they are going in person to school, please let admin know that they are not to release the children to that woman and NOT to give info over the phone."
"They may decide to see her one day, but they need to be able to handle what she did to them in the past and the very real possibility that she will do it again."
"Thanks for taking care of them." – liquormakesyousick
"NTA! Your daughter completely obliterated that relationship with her kids, and severed her ties by giving up her rights... therefore your daughter has NONE. The kids don't want to see her, and they are of an age where that decision is theirs alone to make."
"Personally, I'd think about contacting a family lawyer to figure out any options you have if your daughter starts causing issues. But OP, please know what you're doing is in the best interest of those little girls."
"You're doing an amazing job as Grandpa (and mom, and dad). Those girls will forever be grateful for you, and I am so incredibly sorry about the loss of your wife." – KrNiTa
"Op is definitely not the AH. Keep those kids away, they don't want anything to do with her, make it clear to her, reassure the kids their decision is ok and seek a restraining order if needed, also consider ensuring if something happens to you before they grow up that your son gets full custody over them." – throw-me-away-xo
"Absolutely NTA. She repeatedly put that man before her kids, and chose to do drugs and neglect them."
"They are the ones that don't want to see her and for damn good reasons. You are their support and parent. I am sorry your daughter turned out the way she did and I'm glad she's doing better."
"Maybe in another couple years of sobriety and good choices, the then 18 year old might agree to talk with her if she reaches out. But she can't expect her children to keep dealing with her drama and pain." – Netteka
"Her children are old enough to decide. She has no LEGAL rights now but it was good of you to talk to them and ask if they wanted to see/talk to Her."
"She sounds like a real piece of work.,,,now that the addict partner is dead she decided to be a parent...if he weren't dead she would still be with him and living the same tumultuous lifestyle and she wouldn't have even THOUGHT about her kids."
"You and your wife have given them a gift of a stable loving home. They will never forget that." – Remindme2000
Most Redditors said the OP was definitely NTA and continued to praise him for being a loving and caring grandparent to his daughter's children.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp