Nearly everyone has attended a handful of slumber parties during their younger years.
Most of us have attended at least one slumber party that proved to be a total bust, too, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor dadofagirl wasn't sure what to do when one of the girls at his daughter's slumber party began yelling at everyone else to go to bed at her bedtime.
When his daughter wished that she would go home, the Original Poster (OP) did the only thing he could think to do.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for sending a girl home?"
The OP was supportive of his daughter regularly having slumber parties.
"My (38 Male) daughter (12 Female) often has sleepovers throughout the summer."
"Honestly, we're kind of that house anyway. I feel there are always some kids over, even just to hang out during the day."
"I don't mind. I'm a single dad, and my daughter is an only child. So long as the kids are respectful and their parents are cool with it, let them raid the fridge and chill."
The OP's daughter's most recent slumber party didn't go as well with a new invite.
"My daughter met a new friend, a neighborhood girl that's the same age as her. We'll call her 'Monica.' Monica's parents are a little stricter, which I respect."
"My daughter had another sleepover on the Fourth of July. Monica was among the group. I took the girls to watch some fireworks then took them home and left them to do whatever."
"Around 9:00 PM, I heard some bickering and headed into the den where they were. Monica said she wanted to go to bed. The other girls kept saying they weren't tired. They honestly stay up pretty late."
"Monica said she had a strict bedtime and liked to stick to it. I came up with the compromise that if Monica wanted to go to bed, she could sleep in my daughter's room (the girls usually sleep in the living room) while the rest had fun. Monica was clearly a little disappointed that they weren't going to stop the fun for her but agreed. I went back to what I was doing."
"A half-hour later, I hear Monica storming downstairs and chastising the other girls because they were being too loud. My daughter said that it wasn't fair to expect them to censor themselves."
"I tried to stay out of it but eventually went in there and asked to speak to my daughter privately."
"She said she wanted Monica to go home."
"I said alright, made Monica grab her stuff, and walked her home. Monica was once again upset."
There were consequences for the OP's choice.
"Monica's parents are angry with me. They claim the girls should've just gone to bed early once."
"My daughter doesn't even go to bed at 9:00 PM on school nights, let alone in the summer at a sleepover."
"I said it wasn't fair to expect the girls to stop their fun or stay quiet. I suggested maybe Monica isn't ready for sleepovers."
"This didn't help. My daughter does admit she didn't tell Monica that they usually stay up pretty late but also said she thought it was common knowledge that sleepovers are like that."
"Am I wrong for having Monica leave without trying to problem-solve more?"
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some challenged the OP and called him the AH for getting involved in the argument.
"YTA because you should have let the kids work out this issue instead of helicoptering in." - nemojules
"Monica and her parents sound like uptight killjoys, but I wouldn't have agreed to send her home."
"I would have told my daughter that she invited her, it would be rude to kick her out, she's going to just have to grit her teeth and deal with Monica this time, and know not to invite her to any more sleepovers going forward. So, soft YTA." - Affectionate-Ad3584
"YTA. Sorry, I don't really think you're an a**hole, but good gracious man, you need to read up on teens and their social behaviors. Yes, Monika was having a fit, but you have no idea what those girls were doing or saying to her when you weren't in the room."
"What if they were teasing her, calling her fat or otherwise tormenting her and she just wanted to go to bed… but didn't want all the other girls to hang out together talking smack about her? Even if Monika was being totally ridiculous for no reason, which as a mom to four daughters, I seriously doubt, your daughter must learn to be a gracious hostess."
"Now, Monika is out of their friend group. Likely, those girls will isolate her at school and soft bully her. This stuff is barely perceptible to parents, because we only see our own kids' side of the story, and we don't consider that they may not be socializing well."
"The bottom line is, you weren't in the room and weren't there to witness any nonsense or ganging up on Monika. You need to call her parents, and apologize, and have your daughter apologize, too." - Recent_Ad_4358
"You don't think your daughter and her friends should have to be quiet enough to not disturb another guest who is trying to sleep? They could have easily kept the volume down and just not invited her next time. She was also unreasonable, so ESH." - Internal_Progress04
"ESH. Monica sounds like she's ... still figuring out how to be pleasant in social situations ... but I feel like you could have done more to try to make it work."
"Did she need to go home? Probably. Could you have called her parents first and explained the issue to get insight and see if there's anything you should know/say/try? Yeah. I think you should have."
"I could totally see my autistic son doing this if he wasn't prepped to expect a late bedtime, complete with the stomping downstairs and telling everyone they're too loud. Is it annoying that he is that way sometimes? Absolutely. And it doesn't endear his peers to him, lemme tell you."
"But I always appreciate a parent giving me a heads-up so we can try to address behavior in a way that won't get him banned from all future friend gatherings. And sometimes just getting a clear, full explanation from his parents helps my son switch gears and go along with an unexpected schedule change." - silverpsilocybin
"I think this is where the mistake was made. While you still need to be the parent in a house full of tween girls by helping them find a compromise, it's not your job to go "back and forth" and make the problem go away yourself."
"I would have explained to your daughter that if she wants to invite friends over, she has to accommodate her guests to some degree and not just dismiss them."
"By sending the girl home, you're enabling your daughter to engage in exclusionary behavior and not resolve her own problems. If she invites someone over, she has to deal with them herself. That will help deter her from inviting over every Sue or Sally in the future."
"YTA for sending the girl home and not having your daughter take accountability herself. It's a missed learning opportunity."
"Good luck, though, I'm sure you're doing your best, and dealing with tween drama is not easy." - bloodgods
Others were supportive of the OP's decision to step in during the slumber party.
"'They claim the girls should've just gone to bed early once.' What a laughable sentence."
"It's a bunch of 12-year-olds. They can stay up for a d**n sleepover. NTA."
"I'm not sure what else you could have done other than let the girls bicker all night, ruining everyone's time. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the strictly raised." - KronkLaSworda
"NTA, it does indeed seem like she isn't ready for sleepovers or AT LEAST has different needs/preferences for a sleepover. You and your daughter were hosting, and it was unreasonable to expect the party to be shut down at 9:00 PM."
"The original compromise made sense, but that seemed inadequate to Monica, who sounds like a pretty overbearing and unpleasant child to be chastising her peers like that."
"The only thing I wonder is if you'd given Monica one more chance, maybe by saying something like, 'Hey Monica, we don't want to send you home, but we can't just shut down the party, so do you want to go to bed here despite the noise or would you rather go home?'"
"But honestly, this was probably a good and needed lesson for both Monica and her parents. If they're going to be that rigid and uncooperative while guests at someone else's home, it's probably a situation they should avoid." - owls_and_cardinals
"'A half-hour later, I hear Monica storming downstairs and chastising the other girls because they were being too loud.' Pfft, girl, bye."
"Monica seems a bit entitled, and apparently, the apple didn't fall far from the tree."
"I applaud you for initially not getting involved and then stepping in when you needed to and sticking with your daughter. NTA, by the way." - Smart-Mango08
"NTA."
"You tried to let it settle it for themselves, came up with a good compromise, spoke to your daughter privately, and returned Monica home safely."
"I feel bad for Monica. I remember the sleepover I had at age 11 where my mom rented 'Predator,' and one of the kids said he wasn't allowed to watch Rated R movies. We watched 'Batteries Not Included,' and Ronald was never invited to a party again." - gleaming-the-cubicle
"NTA. Guests don't get to set the rules for everyone else. Going to bed at 9:00 PM is pretty early, especially in the summer (in a lot of places, it's still light out)."
"That's not the norm for 12-year-olds, and Monica needs to realize that and also learn that when she goes to different places, there are always going to be different rules, and she needs to learn to adjust and be more flexible. Not everything is always going to happen just how she likes it... could be a good learning experience."
"They're only a couple of years away from high school, and people are going to be staying up a lot later." - tdluxon
"NTA."
"I was once the Monica in this story."
"I came from a family with early bedtimes and also rules about what kind of things we could / couldn't watch."
"I went to a sleepover at a friend's house, at a similar age, only to discover that they were planning on watching horror movies all night (which I wasn't allowed to watch, and also didn't want to watch because my nightmares are vivid enough without extra fuel, thank you very much)."
"I did not demand everyone else watched PG movies and go to bed early."
"Instead, I hung out in my friend's bedroom, reading books off her bookshelf while they watched movies. I'd go hang out with them in between movies or when they paused for snack breaks. We'd play games, eat, and chat, and then they'd go back to their movie, and I'd go back to my book in the bedroom."
"I probably went to sleep around 10.30 PM (which was super late for me) while they pulled an all-nighter."
"It's okay to have personal preferences or different rules for yourself. But it's not okay to expect everyone else to stick to your preferences or rules." - smallishbear-duck
The subReddit could understand the frustrations of hosting a slumber party, let alone one where the tweens and teens are arguing about something seemingly mundane.
But they were more divided over how the OP had handled the situation, with some pointing out that sending the friend home was the perfect message, while others felt it would have been better to keep her there and come to a compromise.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp