Traditions—that don't physically or emotionally harm—are important to pass on to maintain a distinct cultural identity within families. Across the Earth, different ethnic groups have ways to celebrate a birth or milestone for a child.
The mundan head-shaving ceremony is performed in parts of India. In Japan, a baby's birth may be recognized by eating a red rice and red bean dish.
In Tibet, on the third day after birth, friends and family visit the new mother with gifts of clothing, yak-buttered tea, barley wine, meat and cheese. In Turkey, new mothers drink a traditional beverage called lohusa serbeti, which is made with water, sugar, cloves, cinnamon, and red food coloring.
In Brazil when guests come to greet the mother and the baby, they receive gifts that usually include a basket with candy and souvenirs and a thank you note.
In several cultures across the globe, a gift of gold jewelry is presented to the child.
But what happens when the parents come from two different cultures? What is acceptable to one set of grandparents may not be acceptable to the other.
A mother encountered this issue with her father-in-law after her parents gifted her daughter with a culturally appropriate item. The woman decided to turn to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for anonymous crowd-sourced feedback.
Anon19191919191919 asked:
"AITA for standing my ground on a family tradition that my father-in-law (FIL) says is 'disgraceful'?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My mom is Indonesian-Chinese. It is traditional to give children gold jewelry. My grandparents gave me a pair of gold bracelets (gelang) when I was born. I wore them my entire childhood."
"As a child, I never knew their monetary value, and I don't recall being overly complimented on them. As with anything worn every day, I was mostly unaware of them. However, they always made me feel special, reminded me that my grandparents love me, and reminded me of my heritage."
"My parents gave my daughter (3-years-old) gelang when she became a big sister a few months ago, and she has been wearing them ever since. I never explicitly explained what the gelang meant to my husband, but he had some idea."
"Neither of us talked about the gelang to my in-laws. My FIL is Taiwanese."
"During this time, I heard from both my MIL and my husband that my FIL had misgivings about the galang in terms of safety and showing off. He called me after seeing pictures of my daughter at school orientation and very rationally told me his concerns. I was busy, so I thanked him for thinking about it and I would do the same."
"Yesterday, he told my husband to tell me to call him."
"The first thing he said 'ok, so I told you to not let her wear the gold bracelets and you didn't do it'. I explained to him that I didn't know he was telling me to take action and I had thought he was asking me to consider his opinion."
"He then heatedly began his argument for why I should not let my daughter wear gelang: 1) he worked in Indonesia in the 1990s and saw the extreme violence against the Chinese partly due to their wealth 2) safety 3) it is 'disgraceful' to let her go to school wearing jewelry and 'showing off."
"I apologized, explained what the gelang mean to me, discussed the safety aspect, and talked about her school (private preschool-6th grade, we are relatively middle class there, drive over 10-year-old cars, don't wear designer clothing, etc...)."
"After 20 min, he told me he was tired of this long conversation and asked if I was going to do what he said or not. I asked if we could please talk more."
"He refused, so I asked my husband to come in and hear his dad's response. My husband has been really supportive and tried to reason with his dad."
"FIL began saying things like 'you are a disappointment and all my efforts to raise you are a waste'. My FIL made the ultimatum that if we don't take the gelang off during school, that he nor my MIL would see us anymore."
"My MIL and husband have voiced that they think he is being insane and support my decision, but they both hate confrontation and I know they wish I could just obey to keep the peace."
"I feel that he has blown this out of proportion but won't back down because at this point, it's about control and having his children do what he says."
"Am I wrong to consider calling his bluff?"
The OP added:
"We live in the US."
"I may be the a**hole because I am not doing the simple thing, which would be to take the bracelets off my daughter."
"This results in my husband's family being upended and my daughters not seeing their grandparents for an undetermined amount of time. My younger daughter is three months old, so time moves quickly at this age."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA – Not the A**hole
- YTA – You're the A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everybody Sucks Here
Redditors were almost unanimous in declaring OP was not the a**hole (NTA)...
"NTA. Call his bluff. The thing is your husband is on your side. Your FIL is being insecure." ~ FuzzyMom2005
"Grandad is totally unhinged if he thinks he gets a vote in this. Hill to die on etc.."
"But honestly I'd go further than passively calling his bluff: go on the offensive. Go no contact with him until he apologizes for overstepping your marriage and disrespecting your culture."
"He gets zero grandchild access until he learns to behave like a grown a** man instead of the deluded toddler demanding the world conform to his whims he currently is."
"Tell him in those terms, offense intended. He deserves a large dose of reality." ~ admweirdbeard
"Danger! If his strategy works, it will become the new normal for him getting his way every time he interferes in your lives."
"NTA. Have hubby communicate how ashamed he is of his father." ~ Traveling-Techie
"NTA at this point? Backing down would be a huge mistake. He'll feel emboldened over everything and you'll find yourself being encouraged to give in over and over again."
"He isn't worried about safety. He's just pissed off that you didn't obey and that your husband, in turn, didn't obey. These are the pathetic tantrums of an old man trying to pretend he is in charge." ~ SnooPets8873
"NTA. I've worked in many multicultural schools on three continents and seen [gelang] worn pretty often. If they ever are noticed, the kids like to share something about their culture, and it's a positive for everyone. No biggie."
"But this isn't about the jewelry; it's FIL's racism and need for control. Good for you for protecting your children's heritage. Hang in there!" ~ Bluejay_Hungry
...but one Redditor felt there were no a**holes here (NAH).
"I'm tempted to say NAH because it is NOT a smart decision to send a child out wearing gold. BUT FIL seems to be using the only rational argument as an excuse for his other ones." ~ Gullible-Zone-209
After reading comments from the first 24 hours, the OP decided to provide some clarification.
"This is the first time I have posted on Reddit and explicitly downloaded the app just to be able to post this situation to the internet. I have read all the comments now over 24 hours after posting."
"I don't know if commenters ever return back to a post, but I just wanted to add a few clarifications in addition to my thanks for everyone's input. I have learned a lot about Reddit and thanks to the mods for making these communities possible!"
"1. Many comments have been about racism. My mother is Chinese, born in Indonesia, so apologies for my terminology. She and her family fled Indonesia in the 1970s due to the anti-Chinese environment."
"They landed in the US and have stayed. My FIL has never given me any indication that he is racist (see comments below if you are confused about Chinese vs Chinese racism) and his wife is Chinese Malaysian. It's possible he has something buried deeply, but he has never behaved on it towards me."
"2. FIL's trauma/ptsd: my FIL did not witness firsthand any of the violence in Indonesia. He described it as being so bad he couldn't get into the country."
"Not going to expand on how weird it is for your own history to be explained to you by a third party since there are several people [in the comments] who hit the nail on the head with that."
"3. safety: I really appreciate everyone who has directly messaged me or commented about the safety of my daughter. I just want to address one small aspect that came up a few times."
"Anti-Asian hate in the US is definitely a valid concern, and I can see how wearing what might be considered ostentatious jewelry could trigger someone who already has hatred in their heart into violence. However, I think there is a reason that so much of the anti-Asian crimes have occurred in larger cities where there are more Asians."
"I live in a large southeast US city where there are not many Asians. I grew up in Southern California where I experienced malicious racism, whereas I have only experienced ignorance here (which is extremely different, and I really don't take much offense to things said or done out of ignorance)."
"I would say that in the area I am, 99% of people do not recognize what she is wearing as gold. I am careful when traveling and take off my own and my child's jewelry."
After her updates, Redditors were still supportive of the OP's decision.
"NTA! Mexicans do this as well with earrings y una esclava de oro for babies! It's to show the love you have to that new family member." ~ Psycho-Pass96
"NTA, my daughter is half Indian. You should see how much gold she's wearing on a daily basis." ~ Mantishard
"NTA—If you give in to his ridiculous demands, it will never stop!" ~ Old_Cheek1076
"NTA! This is quite literally none of your FIL's business."
"It's your tradition. Honor it as you choose. As long as you and your husband agree, you're good, otherwise, you need a talk."
"But your FIL still has no say." ~ uTop-Artichoke5020
"NTA—call his bluff, this is insane. This tradition is so sweet, and lots of cultures do similar things."
"I'm half Italian and half Irish and still have my baby jewelry from my baptism."
"I didn't wear it every day but when I look at it it makes me feel special even as an adult. I would love to get it resized to wear." ~ patronofthewicked
The OP returned to provide a final update.
"After considering everything and talking to those involved, I have decided to die on this hill. There are a few additional reasons I won't expand on, but the main thing is that I am going to stick to my guns while loving him as my child's grandfather (being kind, polite, and allowing him to save face)."
"If he does actually go NC, I can very gladly pursue him (call him, send him pics and videos of children, etc...) as long as I am able to hold true to my own principles with my children."
"I do believe it is a bluff and will last on the order of months."
"I cannot express enough thanks for the emotional support and laughs you all gave me while I felt like my brain was on fire. The encouragement of complete strangers has meant the world to me, not to mention the thought and time others took to write extremely considerate and long replies."
"The internet is not half bad."
How refreshing to see the internet use its powers for good instead of evil.
Hopefully things work out well for this mother and her family.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp