Navigating a new marriage and new family members can be very difficult.
Especially when bringing in children from a previous marriage, the role of the new spouse and that spouse's family can be really unclear to the in-laws, who may not always respond in the best ways.
Reddit user Aita9190773 found herself in an uncomfortable situation with her in-laws after being repeatedly excluded from "family" things.
Unsure if her reaction was appropriate, she went to the popular subReddit "Am I The A**hole?" or "AITA" for perspective on her choices.
She asked:
"AITA For walking out with my girls when my MIL excluded them from family photo album?"
Our original poster, or OP, introduced us to the situation.
"I'm 36-mother of two girls (9/5) I met my now fiance (38) 2.5 years ago. He's a good man, Treats my girls well and loves them."
"Future mother in law is a generous lady truth be told. His family are respectful and helpful. We visit them a lot. After we got engaged I pretty much considered this my extended family."
"However my mother in law tends to do things that either intentionally or unintentionally hurt my feelings, for example: when there's a family dinner at a restaurant we're not invited."
"On Christmas my girls didn't receive anything from her while other kids in the family got gifts and cards. Also all the kids in the family get a trip once a month but my girls never participate. Mother in law's excuses were 'I forgot.'"
This neglect recently came to a head when a holiday present was rife with it.
"This week, my future mother in law was doing family photo album and was gathering family pictures from everyone. Sister-In-Law and her kids/brother in law and his kids and so on."
"She called and asked if I could send her some pictures. I thought that was nice of her. I sent them pretty much after my call with her ended."
"We were invited to her house. The entire family was there to look at the photo album bc it was complete. We took turns to look at it. And when it was mine and my girls turn I was stunned."
OP's daughters were completely excluded from the album.
"Turned out she picked the pictures that had just me and her son, not my girls, although We took a ton of pictures."
"My girls were excited, wanting to see the album then asked why their pictures weren't there. I didn't even wanna think about how they'd feel."
"I was caught off guard otherwise I wouldn't have let them look at the album. I asked MIL why she excluded my girls and she didn't even reply, she just ignored me. My fiance stared at me."
"I felt awful. I got up, took my girls and walked out immediately. Everyone was confused. My fiance followed us, then we left."
Afterwards, OP and her fiance were in disagreement about how the situation should have been handled.
"At home he told me that I really shouldn't have walked out before dinner and should've just ignored this whole thing because 'Who cares about a stupid photo album?'"
"I told him It's a symbol of family. The girls felt left out when all the kids pictures were there except for the girls although I sent her pics of 4 of us as a family."
"He said his mom didn't mean it and promised that this will change once we get married, and said he'll 'get everyone in line' so I shouldn't even consider this a problem."
"And that my girls are the light of his life and that's the only thing that matters. And that I was overreacting over a photo album."
In a conversation with OP's mother-in-law, the truth came out.
"Mother in law called and was upset, saying me walking out like that was disrespectful to the entire family."
"When i told her about what she did, she bluntly said 'I don't wanna lie to people, those girls don't relate to me in any way.'"
"She said she loves them and treats them well, will host their birthdays 'if I want' but she won't call them family."
"I argued with her over this and I hung up on her since she didn't think she did anything wrong."
"Was I in the wrong? Did I overreact?"
Redditors offered their perspective on the situation by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Reddit, no holds barred, said OP was not to blame.
"If the girls are 'the light of his life' he wouldn't let his family treat them this way and would have nipped it in the bud the first time they were excluded with gifts."
"Everyone can spend their money as they see fit, but for someone that should be treating them as grandchildren should be more fair."
"Or else she doesn't get to be in their lives. If they get married guaranteed she regrets it, unless he has an epiphany before the wedding."~BugDue8789
"OP, I was your daughters. I had step-grandparents and 8 step aunts/uncles plus their families who treated my mother and I like this for over a decade."
"It was made clear time and time again that we weren't real family, and I wasn't a real grandchild because I wasn't my ex-stepfather's biological child."
"This behavior won't change. Marriage won't change a thing. Your fiancé will not 'whip his family into shape.'"
"In fact he has shown you already that he will take his mother's side and continually excuse her behavior. Your future MIL's behavior is deliberate and will continue to get worse."
"Please think long and hard about whether or not this is what you want to subject your daughters to. NTA."~Glitter_Voldemort
"How about fiance gets everyone in line before you get married rather than passing the conflict down to some arbitrary time when you have less ability to walk away."
"No she's not related to your girls but her son is marrying you and you come with a family."
"Reminds me of the scene in Hidden Figures when Katherine Johnson's husband proposed and he talked about how he was also marrying her girls."
"I'm not related to my nephew by blood, that literally means nothing to me. That's my nephew. She's deliberately excluding them and that is purposely hurtful."
"She doesn't want to lie to people? Bonkers, she's being passive aggressive. Not cool. NTA, NTA, NTA."~wildeflowers
"NTA but your fiance will NOT have your back, and the treatment your daughters are getting now will only continue."
"I was in your daughters' shoes when I was a kid and my dad was getting remarried and thankfully we were accepted into the family events, photos, etc. by the time my dad was engaged to my stepmom."~Key-Tensio
In fact, the Redditors commenting are urging OP to reconsider entering this family altogether.
"NTA! The real issue here is your fiancé's lack of a spine to stand up to his mother."
"That will probably never change, so you're walking into this coming marriage with your eyes wide open: If you marry this man, this will be your constant reality."
"Your daughters will continue to get ignored, and you will be pushed out of events."
"Cut your losses and flee this toxic relationship."~towering_velveteen
"NTA. Your priority is your daughters and it is your obligation as their mother to stand by and up for them and protect them from anybody who is hurting them, physically or emotionally."
"It's exceptionally cruel to exclude children so young from gifts, trips, etc."
"Your fiance needs to speak to his mother because it's unfair to subject you and your children to that treatment the rest of your lives. You're either family or not."~shorething99
"NTA and I strongly suggest going no-contact with your in-laws until there is a promise of better behavior and an apology."
"What a cruel and entirely unnecessary thing to do to you and your young children. This woman has not been 'forgetting' your girls, she's been deliberately excluding them. It's completely enraging."
"Your fiancé needs to step up and draw some really hard lines with his mother, and it needs to happen BEFORE the wedding."~Trick_Doughnut_6295
"NTA. Do not marry into that family."
"He needs to get his mother straight before the wedding, and if he can't then he needs to stay in solidarity with you and stop going to their events."
"Or don't marry him. Your daughters should never feel less than."~eyespy_01
After all, if the family continues to deliberately exclude the children, will that behavior ever really change?
"Look, I am a single mom of three. I'm dating a man who has kids as well. His family, even on the first day of meeting my boys and I, included them as if they were their own."
"My mom (and this surprised me honestly) did the same and spent an entire day playing with one of his kids."
"They got Christmas presents when this was THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE EVER MET THEM. Your MIL...that woman's behavior is disgusting."
"Our parents love us and therefore love who we love. Your MIL doesn't love her son that way, she sure doesn't respect you at all and she is being awful to CHILDREN."
"DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN. If he's not willing to stick up for you after 2.5 years of this behavior, he never will."
"He doesn't love your girls as much as he says he does if he can watch them get treated this way and do nothing."~analystnerd
"NTA. Are you sure you want to bring them into a group of people who has already said will make them feel like they do not in any way belong?"
"She did what she did intentionally, and if your boyfriend is not standing up to her now, he will not in the future. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and your girls deserve better."~MalsPrettyBonnet
"NTA- she's intentionally excluding your girls and doesn't care that it hurts them. Screw her. Good on your for standing up to her."
"If your fiancé can't see that and won't back you and the girls up, I would leave him, if I were you. You are subjecting your girls to a life time of pain and feeling like they aren't good enough."
"This is one of my fears dating as a single mom. If it was my son, my partner backing up his mother in a situation like this would be my hill to die on."~00HiddenIdentity00
"NTA. This is not going to get better after you get married. This is how your mother in law is going to behave toward your daughters. And this is how your fiance is going to handle it."
Y"ou have a very tough choice in front of you. If you marry this man your daughters will spend the rest of their childhood being treated like 2nd class citizens. And your husband won't care."
"Please, please rethink this relationship."~kindlefan12
OP unfortunately has a tough choice in front of her: now that her mother-in-law has revealed that she doesn't intend to treat her children as family, is that acceptable for her?
Whatever her decision, we wish her the best.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp