When making a guest list for a wedding, people have to first come to terms with who is being left off the invites.
And why?
There are always going to be disappointed friends and family.
It's can be especially trying when the choice is made to go... childfree.
Some parents don't take that one well.
Case in point...
Redditor throwaway3373123 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for using flash cards to explain to my brother and his wife why they can't bring their rainbow baby to my wedding?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My fiancée (F) and I (M) are getting married."
"We've decided wedding's gonna be childfree."
"No hate towards children just to keep it more organized and contained."
"My brother 'Chris' (M) and his wife (F) have a 3 year old son who everyone calls a 'miracle' or 'rainbow' baby."
"He came after several failed pregnancies that lasted for years."
"When they found out that my nephew was included in the no children rule; they tried to convince me to make an exception for him."
"Chris told me his son is a miracle baby and his presence at the wedding will bring 'blessings' for me and my fiancée."
"I refused and said no, the wedding is childfree."
"His wife kept sending my fiancée pics of my nephew when he was months old (what that mean??)."
"I told them no, and to stop."
"My brother told me this might cause a rift in our relationship, I again said no and explained that the wedding is childfree."
"He asked again and pointed out how his baby is different since he's a rainbow, a miracle baby."
"I again said no and explained that the wedding is childfree."
"They brought it up when they visited at my home and I knew they weren't going to stop so I'd made flash cards in advance with the phrase 'the wedding is childfree, period.'"
"And pulled them out and started slowly showing them the flash cards one by one in this order..."
"The wedding (with a sticker of bride and groom)."
"Is Child (with a sticker of a baby)."
"FREEE (with a sticker of a 🚫 sign)."
"PERIOD (with a huge, black dot sticker)."
"They both were stunned."
"I asked if they get it now and Chris had lost his s**t."
"His wife had already grabbed her stuff and walked out."
"Chris called me an a**hole for doing this and said that I disrespected him, his wife and their son who's my one and only nephew."
"He rushed out after we argued."
"My fiancée saw the whole thing and thought that it was funny but my parents and Chris are livid beyond measure."
"They're telling everyone about the amount of disrespect and mockery I had displayed towards them and I'm being told to 'fix it' now."
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Well, I suppose you could have used hand puppets instead, but flashcards seem to have gotten the message across."
"It makes me insane how some parents think their little bundle of joy should be allowed anywhere, anyway, anytime and that no never applies to them."
"It's pretty clear they were going to run this horse right up to the altar. NTA." ~ Dipping_My_Toes
"Look, OP, I'm infertile."
"I wanted kids all my life, me and hubby tried for years, it will never happen."
"Trying almost killed me, so I had to choose: keep trying and die, or stop."
"I would have LOVED to help hold the flashcards for you!!!"
"Hell, I would have gone full blown interpretative dance for you, if that is what it took to get it through their thick skulls that the wedding is gonna be childfree."
"It's YOUR wedding, YOUR rules."
"NTA, at all."
"Yes, after all the pain and struggle they went through, after all the losses they suffered, your nephew is a miracle."
"But so is every child that is born."
"And every child can also be an annoying little s**t that gets cranky and tired and bored when adults are doing boring adult things like weddings."
"It doesn't make you an a**hole to not want cranky toddlers at your wedding having meltdowns."
"And it doesn't make you a bad uncle to save your nephew from the meltdowns."
"Nor a bad brother to give brother and S[ister] I[n] L[aw] a f**king night off away from their 3 year old."
"If he was only 3 months, and you were getting p**y because they wouldn't come without him, then yeah, you would be a bit of an a**hole."
"But he's 3 years old."
"He can handle a babysitter watching him."
"Heaven help the child when he starts school." ~ Fabulous-Ad-5284
"I am dying of laughter that after getting the no, the parents started sending baby pictures like that would turn the tide."
"These people have genuinely LOST THE PLOT."
"Babies are cute, we know this, but no one is that gaga over someone else's kid."
"My daughter was an adorable baby."
"Keeping people from touching her chunky cheeks when we were out and about was a full time occupation."
"She even won a full month of free diapers in a Cute Baby Contest (don't judge, lol. Free stuff is awesome)."
"As cute as she was/is, I didn't go out waving her around like a backstage VIP pass."
"We're bonkers over our OWN babies so that we keep them alive even when they drive us nuts."
"The cuteness bubble extends no further, lol." ~ thegreatmei
"My sister gets called a miracle baby because mom found out she was pregnant literally hours before they were about to hop in the car to go sign adoption paperwork for a child."
"They tried I[n] V[itro] F[ertilization] for 15 years before she was born."
"Mom went thru hell on her body to try to conceive but never once had she ever used that as a reason to bring my sister anywhere she was not allowed as a kid."
"We actually go to plenty of adults only weddings and my parents always hired a babysitter."
"I don't get why this couple thinks their child is entitled to go to a wedding that is NOT their wedding."
"It's not about the couple, it's about OP and his partner!"
"Why would you ever insist on bringing YOUR child to a wedding and insist an exception be made just for your kid to an event that isn't even about you!?"
"I just don't get it at all." ~ fantasticgenius
"OP's brother and sister-in-law are going to be a pain in the ass everywhere they go for the foreseeable future."
"I can understand if people have struggled to have a child and feel like their living, healthy child is a 'miracle.'"
"I don't mind if they say so, even if they say it repeatedly."
"But there's something twisted about making 'rainbow baby' this kid's whole identity."
"'Oh, our baby will bring you blessings, because he's a rainbow baby!'"
"He's just a kid."
"He's not a whole different kind of kid."
"He's not a magic kid."
"And he's three; he's not a baby anymore."
"It's about time his parents grew up. NTA." ~ AfterSevenYears
"Haha. I mean I don't know about you but I have always felt interpretive dance accurately portrays my points."
"Honestly though, the fact that both the brother/SIL and OP's parents are angry speaks volume about how they all thought that nephew was going to be the exception to the rule."
"I think OP needs to have a serious conversation with his parents about how his brother was crossing a line with him and also his fiancée by trying to guilt her into bending is important."
"If they continue to be angry about it then he can give them a choice, either stop talking about it or not go."
"Then for Brother and SIL just flat out give them the choice, if they want to attend then nephew is not invited but as such they are within their rights to stay home."
"S**t or get off the pot, is my idea."
"Don't let these people drag this out and ruin the wedding planning process for OP and his fiancée."
"NTA. And the funniest thing I have seen in a while." ~ Choice_Werewolf1259
"I don't understand how people feel that way about their kids."
"Like, I love my daughter, she's rad."
"But you know what?"
"She's also an annoying little s**t sometimes lol."
"And while I love her to bits, she's certainly not special lol."
"She's a kid like millions of other kids out there."
"Being a parent is nice, but it's weird that people make it a personality trait." ~ Last_Fact_3044
"This happened to my wife and I."
"We were very clear from the start there were to be no kids."
"We checked with everyone who had kids that they understood, and they all agreed."
"We even arranged for a sitter (a close friend of ours who's an experienced babysitter with a degree in early childhood education) to watch the kids at my parent's house during the wedding."
"So they could be somewhere they were comfortable (my cousins were the only ones to bring their kids to town with them) and to come to the rehearsal so they could all meet before hand."
"Come the day of the wedding, I get a call from the sitter on my way to the venue asking when the kids will arrive."
"I'm confused because the kids should never have left, but they insist there are no kids to be found."
"Sure enough, when I arrive there's a bunch of toddlers in the front row wearing miniature dresses and suits."
"Took most of an hour and a rift that still hasn't been forgiven six years later for them to agree to kids only being at the reception, instead of the whole time."
"Be sure you have a plan for when they try to ignore what you say and do their own thing anyways." ~ KevinJohn1900
Well OP, Reddit is with you.
Your wedding, your rules.
Standing your ground is important.
And it's your and your bride's special day.
Good luck.
And congratulations.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp