Redditor Misanthropic_Lemon just attended his first ever work conference, but is worried he may have made a faux pas.
The Original Poster (OP) found himself surprised and a bit dismayed at all of the social time expected of him after work hours while at the business conference.
The last night of the conference no formal plans had been made, so he made his own which involved Zooming his wife and eating dinner together.
He learned later that it was tradition to have one final meal amongst coworkers, and his plans caused some friction between he and his associates.
This drove the OP to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA).
He asked:
"AITA for telling my coworkers that I didn't want to go to dinner with them again because I prefer my wife's company to theirs?"
He went on to tell the full story.
Unfortunately, I [47-year-old Male] was roped into going to a work conference recently."
"I am a remote worker, but sadly I was told that I needed to attend a conference that many of my coworkers go to each year due to how integral my duties were to this year's presentation, I suppose."
"I am not buddy-buddy with any of my coworkers or my boss, but I am professional with them."
"This was the first work conference I had ever been to, so I did not realize how much these things consume the entirety of the time spent there."
"The first three nights of the conference there were different dinners I 'had' to attend after typical work hours…"
"…and when over 8 hours had been spent doing work related things at the conference already."
"Now, I don't really mind attending the actual conference that much, what I mind is the expectation that I spend any more time with my colleagues than necessary."
"In my opinion, if I've spent 8:30 - 5 at a work conference with coworkers attending work-related sessions and giving a work-related presentation, past 5 o'clock I am no longer 'at work.'"
"I was already rather peeved that this was not the expectation at the start."
"But I was at least informed of these three different formal/scheduled dinners once the conference schedule was released."
"The fourth and final night of the conference I expected would be completely mine because there was no conference-wide scheduled dinner."
"As such, the night before when I called my wife, I asked her if she wanted to eat dinner together…"
"…(i.e. video call each other and eat together, then spend as many hours as possible chatting before going to bed), and she said that sounded lovely."
"We made plans to call at 7 our time (6 where the conference was), and I was really looking forward to it, as obviously I love her and her company."
"Unfortunately, at lunch on the final day of the conference, my coworkers (my boss included) mentioned going to a specific restaurant."
"They asked if I was excited to go, and I said I was not going, but I hoped they enjoyed themselves."
"They acted like I smacked them, and asked what I meant. I told them I'd made plans to call my wife and eat dinner with her."
"I was then informed that, apparently, there is some tradition of all my coworkers eating dinner together the last night."
"I said I wasn't informed and we had already eaten dinner together every other night, but I hoped they enjoyed themselves."
"My boss then said it was something I had to attend, then some of my coworkers agreed and said it was an important part of the conference."
"I told my boss and coworkers that it was outside work hours, unpaid, and not scheduled, plus I prefer my wife's company to theirs, so I was not going."
"They then told me I was being rude and an a**hole, and that I should have expected that we would all dine together the final night."
"I said that was ridiculous, but my boss implied that not attending would have repercussions, so I called my wife and apologized to her, and sadly attended this stupid dinner."
"AITA?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"incredibly naive but NTA, that's how confrences go. more career moves are made at those dinners than in the conference room believe it or not" - Cultural_Section_862
"I want to say NAH but just want to also point out you're slowly burning bridges and causing dramas that may impact your professional career all for the sake of 1 evening."
"Suck it up, you are a remote worker so you barely have to deal with colleagues except for these rare occasions." - Kvxyo
"I think that's what was rubbing me the wrong way about the post. It's not like he's stuck in an office with these people all the time and yet he writes like he hates everything about them."
"Every job has annoying things we have to put up with, but refusing to go to dinner with a boss is suicidal behavior in these industries."
"Edit to add judgment: YTA" - blackgirlmagicplz
"NAH giving you the benefit of the doubt since this was your first work conference."
"Basic downlow: this is what these conferences are generally like, at least every single one I've been to over a 30-year career."
"Especially the out-of-town ones....dinners and lunches with coworkers and probably the boss every day."
"This is your chance to "network" in a forced setting. Welcome to the corporate world!" - CajunKC
"Soft YTA."
"Yeah it sucks being a salaried employee and having to travel in and do all this social crap. I'm a remote employee, too, so I can really feel where you're coming from."
"That being said- you're a remote employee. This was an opportunity for you to network, show you're a human, team player, etc."
"Lots of older execs don't like remote work hence why they do these silly week-long in-office type things. They're happy they get to see you're real, and you get to keep working from home."
"Your little stunt might have cost you a future promotion as now you don't look like a team player at all, and you aren't taking the little time you have to get to know your co-workers face to face."
"Obviously, you'd rather hang out with your wife- but telling them that was an AH move."
"Best of luck, OP. Hope they don't hold it against you!" - DoraTheUrbanExplorer
"YTA. Here's the thing…conferences like that suck. The dinners are over the top with mediocre food usually."
"It's stressful. It's exhausting. But…it's part of the gig. It's more networking, going over strategies and discussing what worked and maybe what didn't work."
"Totally not the a for not knowing this but demanding to get out of it makes you one." - Wandering_aimlessly9
"So…ESH, because I can understand the frustration with a job infringing on your personal life. It's a little gross to think that's a company 'expectation.'"
"But realistically, you might have really damaged your career here. It sounds like your delivery must have been relatively harsh, considering the strong reactions you mentioned."
"Whether it's 'right' or not, it's likely going to impact how your boss and coworkers see you."
"Edit: Your username is a little funny in light of the situation" - Worth_Ad5418
"Soft YTA. I'm not sure how you got this far, not knowing this is par the course for conferences. Not an insult...genuinely curious."
"This was a time to network and build relationships which is the true benefit of these conferences."
"Yes....it sucks, but you can't change the rules from the bottom. You may have just hurt any future chances at advancement." - Bluehunter49
"Gentle disagreement here. OP is a remote worker who already doesn't have any personal attachment to their co-workers, and made that clear."
"OP was also not given any notice, formal or otherwise, about what the expectations would be."
"This sounds like it's nothing to do with the conference. It's just their boss and coworkers being jerks because OP didn't want to join..."
"And for the boss to imply that there would be repercussions for not attending an unscheduled event not even organized by the conference smacks of old boys club and micromanagement."
"Additionally, just because this is 'normal' for the conferences, does that make it right?"
"I don't think it does, and I think OP deserves an NTA for having higher expectations of their employer." - Edumacator239
"NTA - people need to accept that these workplace 'bonding' experiences are painful for some people."
"I hated the Xmas lunches with every fibre and eventually started to say no. Everyone was unhappy about it, but f*ck it. I don't owe you my time. You're not paying me" - allowedtobe_happy
"YTA. You were correct in what you said… but it was an a**hole-y thing to say. Sometimes you have to filter the sh*t you say and not be SO direct."
"A simple 'I'm not feeling well' would've been a way better to get out of that dinner. Better yet, 'I think I have food poisoning from last night's dinner' lol." - pbd1996
Perhaps a little too honest?
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp